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A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

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Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#351

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If that's the case why can't OF impose these requirements on their creators?

Presumably because of the costs of verification and record keeping. A single adult video studio might have a maximum of a few hundred people who they have to keep records for. Those people are paid per shoot, and the content is owned by the studio. There is a high ratio of revenue to number of people whose records must be kept. On OnlyFans, they have a huge amount of people producing a small volume of content and mak…

That can't possibly be it. We're talking about a billion dollars business burning its main revenue source to the ground, and the main reason would be that they can't afford to do the easily-automated paperwork? The math doesn't make sense.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#352
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodies are used commercially all the time, such as in manual labor, physical therapy, disability care, security, policing, military service, athletics, dancing, commercial modeling, ... The problem that's particular to sex work is legal systems that fail to prevent coercion. This is exacerbated by religious advocacy groups that try to make sex work harder without making it safer.

Paying somebody to do something physical and paying somebody to physically use their body are two completely different things

I don't think that distinction is useful on this question. Lots of non-sex physical work involves just being present, and lots of sex work involves skill.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#353
post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article itself was also a side-effect, not the source. Exodus Cry has been lobbying everyone such as payment processors, rich donors, advertisers, as well as NYT (getting them to write the article). So article wasn't the source, it was just another piece in the path of Exodus Cry's rampage. They have a huge legal team and they've been attacking this from every imaginable angle.

So the article was paid and that in itself is no problem ?

I didn't claim it was necessarily paid, just that they were convinced or tricked into it. The piece itself isn't problematic at the surface, putting an end to human trafficking is a good thing, it issue is the people behind the organization and their motives, which NYT either didn't know or ignored.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s quite the axe to grind against journalists. Especially since their job is to ask questions. To think they’re a part of this mass conspiracy to take powerful entities down is laughable. My partner, a journalist, has gotten death threats just by being at peaceful protests against certain groups that have wealth and pull in the community - just because members of that org were certain the journalist was the main…

> My partner, a journalist, has gotten death threats Sorry that happened to your partner. I am surprised that death threats are still around. Is it not actually a crime or is anonymity so good that law enforcement can't trace them or do the recipients or police just not bother following up?

It's the latter two. It's generally out of the jurisdiction of local police departments, and the FBI doesn't have anywhere near the manpower to take every threat seriously.

Personally, I'd really like to see them put at least a little effort into it, to send the message that it is in fact illegal and you take at least some risk. As it is, people often make no real effort to disguise themselves, but get away with it because no authority cares enough as long as they don't commit actual violence. So they can shut down speech with impunity.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#355
post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's the same crap as the ad-pocalypse. Journalists with an agenda use a disingenuous tactic, if they have a problem with a person or entity, they'll call up their sponsors, business partners, vendors, etc, and say "we're writing an article on X's platform which has been found to have (controversial material framed in a negative context), are we to believe that you're supportive and would your company care to comment…

That’s quite the axe to grind against journalists. Especially since their job is to ask questions. To think they’re a part of this mass conspiracy to take powerful entities down is laughable. My partner, a journalist, has gotten death threats just by being at peaceful protests against certain groups that have wealth and pull in the community - just because members of that org were certain the journalist was the main…

Right, we should blame people who actually decide what gets published, not the messenger.

It's the publisher and owners who make that choice. In fact on occasion some publishers acquire exclusive rights to a story just to bury it: https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/national-enqui...

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#356

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that EU and Australia have regulated interchange fees for MasterCard/Visa, costing them gobs of money and value. The US doesn’t need to fine or litigate them if they want to penalize them heavily, they can just pass a “consumer protection bill” (so Walmart and others can pay all credit card payments).

The interchange goes to the card issuer, not to the scheme. Visa and MasterCard fees are the smallest part of the overall fee charged by the payment processor. (That said it might be higher in the US, I don't know).

Works mostly the same in the US

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#357
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's said to objectify women. More specifically, the Johns are treating women's bodies as something that can be traded commercially. The more that is normalised, the more it damages all women - not just prostitutes. If you don't think objectifying women harms them, then that's not a "good" argument, I guess. FTR, I'm against laws controlling consensual sex. Not all harmful behaviour should be criminalised.

Bodies are used commercially all the time, such as in manual labor, physical therapy, disability care, security, policing, military service, athletics, dancing, commercial modeling, ... The problem that's particular to sex work is legal systems that fail to prevent coercion. This is exacerbated by religious advocacy groups that try to make sex work harder without making it safer.

It seems that you equate sex to manual labour, when it is one of our important biosocial functions (if not the central) that involves much more complex reactions and distortions at all sides (a prostitute, a client, an aware neighborhood/society) than kicking a shovel into the dirt or massaging a muscle. It’s always baffling how some people try to render it as just a mechanical process akin to workout and/or blowing a nose. If it’s kind of the same, why hiding it from kids and not serving clients right on the squares, like hotdog stands do.

gp: The more that is normalised, the more it damages all women - not just prostitutes

I’d argue it damages society as a whole. Even if prostitutes and all women could be fine and safe by some magic mean, distorted concepts of a “succesful social woman” hit men back as well.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#358
post #357
post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bodies are used commercially all the time, such as in manual labor, physical therapy, disability care, security, policing, military service, athletics, dancing, commercial modeling, ... The problem that's particular to sex work is legal systems that fail to prevent coercion. This is exacerbated by religious advocacy groups that try to make sex work harder without making it safer.

It seems that you equate sex to manual labour, when it is one of our important biosocial functions (if not the central) that involves much more complex reactions and distortions at all sides (a prostitute, a client, an aware neighborhood/society) than kicking a shovel into the dirt or massaging a muscle. It’s always baffling how some people try to render it as just a mechanical process akin to workout and/or blowing…

I don't equate sex to manual labor, they are of course different. But it won't do to reduce manual labor or disability care to "kicking a shovel into the dirt" either. Each of the physical occupations I listed plays a critical social role and involves the mind and body of its occupants in a unique and significant way. See Metaspencer's critique on this point, "what is a knowledge worker".[1]

Much of the criticism of normalizing sex work seems to be masking a motivation based in religious morality which considers sex shameful. I believe that adequately protected professionals can be successful in sex work, just as they can in other fields.

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDXPkor-Wxk

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#359
post #29

Seen this thread going around, but it seems like it skips over the important bit. > So why the rule changes? Because last December the New York Times published an opinion piece by Nick Kristof caller “The Children of Pornhub” that accused the site and its parent company of profiting off revenge porn, child porn and sex trafficking. How do you get from 'opinion piece in a newspaper' to 'gigantic transnational financia…

Agreed. Onlyfans is probably large enough that if they told their customers they could only accept visa or crypto payments that they would lose a lot less business than if they jettisoned their (core?) business.

In fact, MasterCard might lose enough business that they might reconsider. So this can’t be the full story.

Re: A lot of people are getting the OnlyFans story wrong

#360
post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The content they’re talking about is reprehensible. (Beastiality, incest, prostitution) but I’m wary of things being labelled “illegal” since in the UK, facesitting, spanking and “water sports” are illegal. So it’s easy to cite 1 case of beastiality and later say there are “200,000 illegal articles” when 199,999 could be spanking.

> prostitution I argue: prostitution is illegal but not reprehensible.

It's not illegal where OF was founded, the UK.
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