Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged • Hacker News Board

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#31

Post by jefft » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:25 AM UTC

teej wrote: post #29

maukdaddy wrote: post #9

There is nothing more evil in modern business than marketers. Between real life experience and MBA classes I have come to despise most everything involved in modern marketing, especially in the technology space.

Give me a break. This isn't evil marketers hiding in their underground lair. This is web developers, designers, and product managers gaining insight about their users. They don't package this information and sell it wholesale to advertisers. They use it to make the product better . You are taking this -way- too seriously. The ability to have perfect information on how users interact with your product is one the earth…

Let's be clear: this ability isn't used to have perfect information on how users interact with your product.

It's used to allow publishers to make more money from their consumers through advertising.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#32

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:27 AM UTC

Alex3917 wrote: post #20

maukdaddy wrote: post #9

There is nothing more evil in modern business than marketers. Between real life experience and MBA classes I have come to despise most everything involved in modern marketing, especially in the technology space.

Except for that virtually every single one of the biggest problems we face is a marketing problem, rather than an issue where we don't have the science or technology: global warming, education reform, prison reform, the national debt, healthcare, literacy, food production, biodiversity, etc. Marketing is probably the single most important career there is right now, and if there's any hope of humanity making it throug…

You're making the leap from "every big problem we face is a marketing problem" to "and the solution is to track users in minute and excruciating detail".

I can accept that there are ideas which are critical to the survival of the human race and/or modern civilization, which require mass education, and utterly reject your conclusion.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#33

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:29 AM UTC

rhubarbquid wrote: post #17

code_duck wrote: post #15

Why single out Kiss Metrics? One example, I visited Fox News last month and found they set up an HTML5 database called, in a rather unsubtle choice, "evercookie". I can't confirm that this is the case currently, though since the ability to view HTML5 databases in Preferences seems to now be missing from all the browsers I have (which seems odd, too!).

In Chrome you can bring up the Developer Tools (View menu on the mac, I think it's in the wrench menu on other platforms). You can see databases, cookies, etc. in the Resources tab.

"Evercookie" is more than just standard browser cookies: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evercookie

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#34

Post by CrazedGeek » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:29 AM UTC

sp332 wrote: post #22

KISSmetrics has a post explaining how the tracking works. http://www.kissmetrics.com/how-it-works They claim that simply using AdBlock is enough to defeat the tracking. They also claim "KISSmetrics has never, and will never, share anonymous customer activity of what people did on customer A’s site with customer B."

One important detail for AdBlock: you HAVE to be using a Tracking/Privacy filter subscription. Please, if you're using ABP, add one of these as a subscription: http://www.fanboy.co.nz/fanboy-tracking.txt (Fanboy's Tracking List) or https://easylist-downloads.adblockplus.org/easyprivacy.txt (EasyPrivacy). None of the default filter subscriptions block KISSmetrics, but either of these will.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#35

Post by goombastic » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:30 AM UTC

teej wrote: post #29

maukdaddy wrote: post #9

There is nothing more evil in modern business than marketers. Between real life experience and MBA classes I have come to despise most everything involved in modern marketing, especially in the technology space.

Give me a break. This isn't evil marketers hiding in their underground lair. This is web developers, designers, and product managers gaining insight about their users. They don't package this information and sell it wholesale to advertisers. They use it to make the product better . You are taking this -way- too seriously. The ability to have perfect information on how users interact with your product is one the earth…

I really miss not being able to down-vote you.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#36

Post by dredmorbius » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:31 AM UTC

RexRollman wrote: post #13

I usually use Firefox with it set to forget everything on exit, along with the Noscript plugin. Does anyone know if this tracking service would work on a FF user running Noscript? By the way, using Noscript has made me aware of something that I didn't previously know: many sites call Javascript from lots of other domains. I've seen websites with as many as 18 other domains listed on the Noscript pull down menu. And I…

Amen to JS from third-party domains.

I see this as biting us in the butt sometime. Maybe not today, maybe not tomorrow, but soon, and for the rest of your life.

What's more annoying is playing the "NoScript allow roulette" game of trying to figure out which domains/scripts you have to allow for some site feature to work.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#37

Post by code_duck » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:35 AM UTC

rhubarbquid wrote: post #17

code_duck wrote: post #15

Why single out Kiss Metrics? One example, I visited Fox News last month and found they set up an HTML5 database called, in a rather unsubtle choice, "evercookie". I can't confirm that this is the case currently, though since the ability to view HTML5 databases in Preferences seems to now be missing from all the browsers I have (which seems odd, too!).

In Chrome you can bring up the Developer Tools (View menu on the mac, I think it's in the wrench menu on other platforms). You can see databases, cookies, etc. in the Resources tab.

Thanks, I see that in the Inspector now.

I recall menus in Safari, Mobile Safari, Firefox and Chrome which listed all the databases stored, along with the name. It was in Preferences near the cookie and password management.

It looks like the 'databases' menu is no longer in Mobile Safari preferences, and now Safari 5.1 will tell you what a website is storing in general terms, but no longer details the individual databases in preferences.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#38

Post by jscheel » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:40 AM UTC

Jeez guys, not all tracking is evil. You know all that awesome content that exists on the web? Well the people that make and distribute that content need information to make your experience better. Let's say you start a new site. Let's use 8tracks for example: they provide a two-tiered service, one free and premium. The free service exists to drive you to a paid account, but you still derive value from it, nonetheless. In exchange for that free value, you give them stats that they use with their advertisers, who in turn give them cash they can then use to make your experience better. It's a give and take system. Thankfully, money isn't the only currency on the web, a little bit of info and some advertising goes a long way. I am willing to trade value for value, it's fair that way.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#39

Post by scythe » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:44 AM UTC

jscheel wrote: post #38

Jeez guys, not all tracking is evil. You know all that awesome content that exists on the web? Well the people that make and distribute that content need information to make your experience better. Let's say you start a new site. Let's use 8tracks for example: they provide a two-tiered service, one free and premium. The free service exists to drive you to a paid account, but you still derive value from it, nonetheles…

>not all tracking is evil.

Tracking isn't evil. Tracking people who specifically do not want to be tracked is evil.

Re: Researchers Expose Cunning Online Tracking Service That Can’t Be Dodged

#40

Post by palish » Sat, Jul 30, 2011, 2:49 AM UTC

jefft wrote: post #31

teej wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Give me a break. This isn't evil marketers hiding in their underground lair. This is web developers, designers, and product managers gaining insight about their users. They don't package this information and sell it wholesale to advertisers. They use it to make the product better . You are taking this -way- too seriously. The ability to have perfect information on how users interact with your product is one the earth…

Let's be clear: this ability isn't used to have perfect information on how users interact with your product. It's used to allow publishers to make more money from their consumers through advertising.

I think the reason you're being downvoted is because you didn't provide any proof.