Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#431

Post by lambda » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:17 PM UTC

rdouble wrote: post #426

lambda wrote: post #425

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, sure. I don't think that this was some sort of hotel conspiracy. I think it was some douchebags who decided that the anonymity provided by Airbnb would make a great cover for some extensive identity theft. I agree, the conspiracy theorists are jumping to conclusions here. But why would you assume that she's trying to squeeze something out of Airbnb, as opposed to what she said, which is to warn people about the r…

That's just my cynical take on things from dealing with stuff like this in the past. I honestly don't think there's much AirBNB can do to vet people which wouldn't make the service unusable.

There's plenty they could do. They could offer insurance for this sort of situation (yes, they'd have to add an insurance fee or increase their rates for this to make business sense). They could implement credit card address verification, and require that a credit card be in their system for some period of time (3 or 5 days) with a hold on it before someone can make their first rental, which would make it a lot less likely that someone could effectively use a stolen credit card. They could verify phone numbers of guests and hosts by calling them (perhaps even with an automated system, that calls someone up and asks them to punch in a number they got when signing up for Airbnb), which would give an additional piece of evidence about someone's identity if needed. They could implement a trust system in which people with established histories using the system can vouch for someone else, and if no one vouches for you, then you need to do one of the above steps or some other form of additional identity verification. I'm sure there are other ideas that I haven't come up with that would also help and not be too cumbersome; these are just a few off the top of my head.

I don't think that any of these would make the service unusable; if they did all of them, it might be a bit cumbersome, but implementing one or two of these measures would be fine. They would add a little bit of friction, for sure, but I think that it would be worth it for avoiding these sorts of awful situations.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#432

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:20 PM UTC

rdl wrote: post #326

hooande wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let me clear this up for you: Brian Chesky is not a sociopath.

Definitely not a sociopath (he and Joe are great guys; the AirBnB people I've met have all come across as much more social and friendly than most other startups). Actually, a sociopath with $5b at risk over $10-20k might actually do a better job managing this kind of thing than a genuinely good guy who doesn't constantly think about how to defraud of hurt people and then lie to cover it up.

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#433

Post by iamelgringo » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:23 PM UTC

tomlin wrote: post #242

iamelgringo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all my years working in health care as an ER and trauma nurse, I learned one thing: Do the right thing for the patient. If the doctor is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If the hospital is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If a police officer is doing the wrong thing... do the right thing for the patient. The ultimate policy is... Do the right thing for the patient. AirBnb.…

I think all of this crossed their minds. Honestly, I don't think Airbnb wants to leave this person hanging. If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes. If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some…

If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes.

If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some type of actual insurance package on checkout. This way, they are providing a much needed service and indemnify themselves. Making their customers aware of this possibility rather than pretend it doesn't exist would also help create a safer environment.

Paying to make this right _should_ come out of a big, huge, hairy insurance policy. We haven't even begun to talk about the potential legal liability that AirBnb is under here. If they don't have an insurance policy that covers this stuf... You really shouldn't be in the hospitality business.

Dude, I work in an ER. When someone slips on a wet floor in a grocery store, they do _whatever_ _it_ _takes_ to be sure the person is cared for, taken to the ER and checked out. I've seen store managers drive people to the ER after getting hurt in their store.

Why? Because you take care of people. It's just good business.

Happy customers don't sue you. Angry customers sue you, even if you didn't do anything wrong, and you have no legal liability whatsoever.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#434

Post by Hisoka » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:27 PM UTC

Just a side note.. have you guys ever wondered what the impact of this story would've been if AirBnB was not an YC company? That's a big reason why AirBnb is always talked about here. If this was just a regular, non-YC, non-funded company, I doubt this would be a big story. I doubt Techcrunch would talk about it and I doubt we here would vehemently argue about this... In the end, it's about a woman who's room got trashed.. Yes, very unfortunate, but let's face it, this would not make big headlines if this was just a regular company.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#435

Post by chailatte » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:29 PM UTC

younata wrote: post #381

chailatte wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AirBnb is yc's baby, sure. But think logically. Either - The woman is traumatized. The very first week, AirBnb does everything right to help. After a few weeks, the woman still feels mistreated and flips out. Writes an angry blog post. When AirBnb denies this, the woman doesn't feel like she's wrong. Keeps pressing her case. But also is touched by many people's help, and turns down free money. - The woman is traumati…

This woman has also had her entire faith in humanity destroyed. I think option one is more likely.

I don't believe so. She seems to really appreciate all the help offers from strangers, and even turns down money and recommends others to enjoy their time by staying in a hotel room. That doesn't scream 'hating humanity' at all.

Also, when first AirBnb heard about this, they could've

a.) choose to protect her and other users from future incidents

b.) hide and hope it goes away

If they choose a, 5 weeks ago, they would've already either changed the business process, or blogged about it to their community to warn them of danger (heck, the perp hasn't been caught/IDed yet).

But because nothing was done, the fact that they kept outputting PR responses, and offered no tangible amount/receipt/proof that they helped her, tells me AirBnb is the one that is shady.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#436

Post by natural219 » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:29 PM UTC

ditojim wrote: post #246

tomlin wrote: post #242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think all of this crossed their minds. Honestly, I don't think Airbnb wants to leave this person hanging. If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes. If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some…

ef that. take care of your customers or before you know it, you won't have any.

Blindly repeating a mantra without addressing the argument at hand is going to get you nowhere.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#437

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:42 PM UTC

YuriNiyazov wrote: post #423

mapgrep wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In this response from Paul Graham we have an example of how this crisis could taint ALL Y Combinator companies. I say this as a fan of Mr Graham, Hacker News (which he created), and his essays. But this is 100 percent the wrong reaction by Paul to the sickening -- sickening! -- disclosure that Airbnb tried to get this guest to hush up the utter sacking of her apartment in order to close a funding round . Paul, you sh…

Just so you know, the phrase "shocked -- shocked! --" (which you seem to be referencing here with your invocation of "sickening -- sickening! --") is a reference to the movie Casablanca, where it is uttered cynically by a corrupt police chief who is not shocked at all as he's been participating in the illegal activity himself from the very beginning. So, if you are genuinely sickened, it's inappropriate.

[deleted]

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#438

Post by tuckbuck » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:43 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #319

edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

Paul,You, Sir, are a major league asshole.your arrogance is going to get the better of you.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#439

Post by natural219 » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:51 PM UTC

llambda wrote: post #348

pg wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. I think this goes a long way towards confirming suspicions some people have held since the beginning of the debacle, namely that the victim here is blowing things out of proportion in an…

This is the first time I've read a gray comment on Hacker News that obviously does not deserve to be so.

Hacker News is NOT a place for mob mentality and hasty judgments. Nothing in this comment is inflammatory, or rude, or stupid. It's another point of view that deserves to be considered; it certainly does not deserve to be muted.

The fact that you can scan this and the other five Hacker News posts about this subject and can find only one unified interpretation of the event (Airbnb is wrong and evil!) can only signify that the community has sharply steered away from its roots.

Please; take some time to re-read the Hacker News community guidelines:

http://ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html

"The most important principle on HN, though, is to make thoughtful comments. Thoughtful in both senses: both civil and substantial."

It is absolutely shameful that the Hacker News community has degraded this much. If you want to think and act like an average, shallow internet user, then go to Reddit. This is a place for thoughtful, intelligent discussion.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#440

Post by newman314 » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 10:51 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #336

DanHulton wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arrington aside, EJ's own blog post here seems to contradict what you're saying. The story she paints is one of AirBnB doing as much as they can in terms of damage control, but precious little in terms of repair. If they've offered to "fix it", and are doing "everything they could be doing", why is she talking about feeling neglected? I quote: "But the staff at Airbnb has not made a positive contribution to me person…

I don't know her so I couldn't say.

Given that there are (at least) 2 sides to a story, don't you think you should have spoken to her instead of just taking what you have been told by Airbnb at face value?

Something obviously is off here (disregarding whatever Arrington had to say) and my impression is that Airbnb is still coming off as not being on top of PR given most of the comments in this thread and others.