371–380 of 530 posts
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What has more potential for abuse than the fact that Apple can push any software they want to iPhones at any time?
Can they force install updates? I think it’s been over a year since I updated my iPhone’s os.
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Well first of all, it's not provided by the US government. It's a non-profit, and Apple has already said they're going to look for another db from another nation and only included hashes that are the union of the two to prevent exactly this kind of attack. If what you mean by blinded is that you don't know what the source image is for the hash, that's true. Otherwise Apple would just be putting a database of child po…
I would just read the document explaining how this works (see "Matching-Database Setup"): https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/CSAM_Detection_Techni... At no point is anyone besides Apple able to view any NeuralHash hashes from the CSAM database. You can verify the database is the same on all iPhones, but you are not able to look at any of the hashes.
Is the issue that you want to take a given photo that you believe the CCP or whomever is scanning for, compute a NeuralHash, and then see if that's in the db? Or are you wanting to see if your db is different from other phone's db's? Because I think the later is the one that most people are concerned about.
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China or any government adding collisions would be to use Apple's system as a dragnet to find users possessing the offending images. The way it would work is the government in question would submit legitimate CSAM but modified to produce a collision with a government target image. Looking at the raw image (or a derivative) a reviewer at Apple or ICMEC would see a CSAM image. The algorithm would see the anti-governmen…
> So Apple scans Chinese (or whoever) citizens libraries, finds "CSAM" and reports them to ICMEC which then reports them to the government in question. If Apple finds that a particular hash is notorious for false positives, they can reject it / ask for a better one. And they’re not scanning your library; it’s a filter on upload to iCloud. The FUD surrounding this is getting ridiculous.
We’re talking about a company that makes phones and computers, and sells music and tv shows via the internet. Does that matter at all?
How about this. All car manufacturers must now wirelessly transmit when the driver of the car is speeding immediately. How about that?
Let’s just go all out and embed law enforcement into all private companies.
This is fascism, the merging of corporations and the government.
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It’s blinded in the cryptographic sense. It’s a specific term. I would go into detail, but . Suffice to say, unless you provide proof, I am reasonably confident there’s no way to verify the hash db doesn’t contain extra hashes other than the CSAM hashes provided by the US government. But I’ve been wrong many times before.
Well first of all, it's not provided by the US government. It's a non-profit, and Apple has already said they're going to look for another db from another nation and only included hashes that are the union of the two to prevent exactly this kind of attack. If what you mean by blinded is that you don't know what the source image is for the hash, that's true. Otherwise Apple would just be putting a database of child po…
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Related, the Indian Government (Telecom Department) bullied Apple into building an iOS feature for reporting phone calls and SMS by threatening to stop iPhone sales in India. Apple complied. https://indianexpress.com/article/technology/mobile-tabs/app...
> an iOS feature for reporting phone calls and SMS Why doesn't the US govt follow India's govt? I've read that Americans can receive up to 4 unsolicited calls a day.
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It's a fair question, but I think the answer is no: the questions are not the same. As much as Apple wants access to the Chinese market, it would (presumably) draw a line at some point where it would (presumably) have to choose between that market and the US market, if only because the latter is both its legal domicile and the source of most of its talent. Version A: CCP wants to exploit the hash database, there are…
> very possibly Apple moves production (not just sales) out of China As a matter of fact, I am not sure that would be possible: It might well be that no other country has the capacity (machines and labour) to churn out that many iPhones. Would be interesting to hear if anyone has insight on that. (Tim Cook presumably knows...)
I admit it's total speculation, but I think the massive cash reserves are for that: to weather a disruption in production facilities and move production to a more US-friendly location.
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> But more philosophically, it's your own device being turned against you to check you for criminal behavior. That's very different from somebody else checking up on you after you willingly interact with them. This literally only works once you willing send photos to iCloud.
You can't buy a car in EU that doesn't have a sim card. All Tractors have a computer that locks out the machine if it doesn't like something and phones home. Almost every TV on sale is 'smart' and spies on what you are saying. Coffee machines, lights and toasters are now internet connected, and all of them send data to a server that will be scanning for the 'wrong' material. in 10 years there will be nowhere to hide.
Wait, what?
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Can they force install updates? I think it’s been over a year since I updated my iPhone’s os.
Well, no, I don't think they have any way of force install updates, but that would also apply to this update to add CSAM hashing.
> it's not obvious how we can trust that a rogue actor (like a foreign government) couldn't add non-CSAM hashes to the list to root out human rights advocates or political rivals. Apple has tried to mitigate this by requiring two countries to agree to add a file to the list, but the process for this seems opaque and ripe for abuse. If the CCP says "put these hashes in your database or we will halt all iPhone sales in…
Now, what has actually changed? The two compelling push-back against a country's demands for more surveillance etc. are:
a) it is not technically feasible (eg, wiretapping E2EE chats), and
b) it is making the device insecure vis-a-vis hackers and criminals (eg, putting in a backdoor)
The interesting question is: Have these defences against government demands been weakened by this new technology? Maybe they have, that would be my gut feeling. But it is not enough to assert it, one must show it.
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Seems to be a misunderstanding between what the law appears to say and what the actual practice is. Law enforcement's interest is not served by trying to prosecute moderators or companies acting in good faith because they have CSAM in their possession.
There is a difference between moderators manually identifying illegal content in a stream of mostly-legal material and a process where content which has already been matched against the database and classified as almost-certainly-illegal is subjected to further internal review.
Obviously you could not make the same argument yourself unless you were also a reputable megacorp. There are upsides to being king. In this case, NCMEC wants the actual perps in jail so they're not going to take shots at Apple or its employees on technicalities.