Live data from Hacker News

Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

cbc.ca

21–30 of 147 posts

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#21
post #8
post #5

most of wikipedia content is in public domain, how hard is it to "fork" wikipedia and start a new version without the army of their power editors and biased "admins", i.e. take an initial snapshot of the content as a seed but get rid of the centralized bureaucracy and censorship. Edit: looks like there is IPFS version https://blog.ipfs.io/24-uncensorable-wikipedia/

Sure but those power editors and admins do a lot of heavy lifting that you're taking for granted. Someone's gotta be updating those articles and who's to say the editors you get for your fork will be any less partial than the ones on Wikipedia?

i think it's better to have multiple versions of wikipedia articles, maintained via something like github repo

the distribution would be via something like a search portal with ranking similar to Pagerank, or create an explicit mechanism of social voting on articles similar to Reddit.

yes, it might also be biased but at least there will be no single source of "truth" and people can make their own mind which version to believe, and be able to do something like "sort by controversial" as they do on Reddit so see different opinions

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#22
post #13

Typical Wrote up a long description about how the equipment I used for my master's worked (fleshing out a stub article). Only to have some moderator (being extremely polite here) revert the whole thing because it was "uncited". When challenged I ended up getting temp banned for telling them "I know how it works I just built one". Haven't trusted or contributed since it's moving closer to a collective "what we want to…

At this point I'm willing to go to go toe on this on a typical debate perspective.

If I'm being voted down what is so great about the ignorance of the masses here?

Wikipedia has some serious (and in come cases concerningly anti-science) biases. Which is honestly love for them to address at a community level.

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#23
post #13

Typical Wrote up a long description about how the equipment I used for my master's worked (fleshing out a stub article). Only to have some moderator (being extremely polite here) revert the whole thing because it was "uncited". When challenged I ended up getting temp banned for telling them "I know how it works I just built one". Haven't trusted or contributed since it's moving closer to a collective "what we want to…

I know it's frustrating to write true things and have them deleted, but I hope you understand how bad it would be to generalize the rule "accept uncited/unverified claims as true if the account who wrote them says it's true."

I say this as someone who spent weeks writing up a new Wikipedia article with 50 citations and then had it graded a C because I used too many primary sources instead of secondary sources. I empathize with you, but I also empathize with the editors.

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#24
What happened here was atypical for Wikipedia "deletionism" debates.

Normally, when you read a story like this, someone created an article and someone else petitioned to have it deleted (with an "AfD") and there's a whole debate log you can read, and you could try to assess people's biases from the comments they left in the AfD.

Here, though, no article was ever created (prior to 2018, when Strickland was awarded her Nobel). Instead, a beginner editor wrote a draft of an article through the "Articles for Creation" ("AfC") process. AfC drafts are, apparently, reviewed by admins before being promoted to the "mainspace" of real articles. You can read the draft here:

https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=842614385

This is a stub article --- merely the beginning of a real article. And that's fine; it's how lots of good articles start out. But it's easy to see how an admin churning through AfC stub drafts might not have clearly understood the notability of the subject. The article links mostly to the professor's own research group. There are hundreds of thousands of academics whose position in the encyclopedia could also be established with links to their research groups!

What I think is probably more important here though is that the original article, the one we talk about as being "deleted", was created with a special process where the author asked for permission to have it added. That's not how Wikipedia ordinarily works; you have to opt in to the permissions process. The author could just as easily have simply created a Strickland article in the mainspace, and the process that deleted it would have been more formal, would have included appeals, and there'd be a log of the reasoning. It likely would have survived. The author of the draft essentially asked for that not to happen, by using the AfC process.

It seems important to add here: had it been an actual article, and had it been deleted through a speedy deletion or a full-blown AfD process, it would be more difficult to get a Strickland article onto WP in the future (not "difficult", just "more difficult"). But there wasn't, so, in the entire span of time prior to Strickland's Nobel, anybody could have created a stub article for her and her work. From what I can tell, nobody did. That, to me, is the more telling phenomenon here, not the draft deletion.

Late edit

Complicating this story a lot, something I missed earlier: there was a tiny stub article on the site in 2014, but it was speedy-deleted for copyright infringement. (Thanks, commenters below!)

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#25
post #13

Typical Wrote up a long description about how the equipment I used for my master's worked (fleshing out a stub article). Only to have some moderator (being extremely polite here) revert the whole thing because it was "uncited". When challenged I ended up getting temp banned for telling them "I know how it works I just built one". Haven't trusted or contributed since it's moving closer to a collective "what we want to…

> it's moving closer to a collective "what we want to know" service

I'd say it is moving towards a "what we want you to think" corpus, with politically motivated activists taking over from objective editors. Those activists will use the language of editors, calling upon the myriad of policies put in place when Wikipedia was growing, while bending and changing that language towards their own goals.

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#26
post #15

Why does this article about notability deletions not link the notability criteria of wikipedia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#...

I'd say it's a wiki go edit it but I refuse to given my contributions have been kicked in the past.

Are you sure you are talking about the same thing? The article is not on a wiki.

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#27
Some critics say it was gender bias, while others say it was a problem with notability, a gauge editors use to determine if a topic deserves a Wiki page. Wikipedia editors must be able to verify facts about any Wiki entry against published reliable sources, from publications to the press.

Actual crux of the issue. Stop trying to turn every fucking thing into a gender war.

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#29
post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Easy enough to fix: "Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia before rise to prominence points to wider bias" I wish news outlets would stick to reporting the news.

You are missing the point of the article. This woman WAS prominent AND doing notable work AND was still deleted. The Nobel Prize, for the most part, recognizes notable work by prominent scientists.

Prominent to optics experts before the award [EDIT: or perhaps not? See https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28236537 ], clearly, not to Wikipedia editors. It's easy to tell who's prominent in distant past (it's the people in history textbooks), but if your guide to recent prominence is things like lists of awards or frequent mentions in the media, you may be getting some corner cases from time to time.

Re: Nobel scientist's deletion from Wikipedia points to wider bias

#30

Why does this article about notability deletions not link the notability criteria of wikipedia? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Notability_(people)#...

"Notability" is an idiosyncratic, illogical, fringe, inconsistently-enforced criterion, and no one cares about it other than a tyrannical minority of wiki editors.
Post reply on HN