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Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

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Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#461
post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is not true if you read the technical details. Scan applies for files (and only for those) which are prepared to be uploaded into the cloud. If you don't trust that, that is another story. System is full black box.

Yes, but it happens on your iPhone . So what happens on your iPhone isn't staying on your iPhone like they said it would.

So when I said:

Am I missing something more than "but it's happening on-device!"?

Your answer is "no".

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#462

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple as CSAM, you only need to produce the picture of a pineapple to defend yourself against any accusations. If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple on your phone as CSAM, after Apple notifies the authorities they have identified child porn on your phone, after the police detain you with the courtesies afforded to all alleged pedophiles, after you cough up you…

> after Apple notifies the authorities they have identified child porn on your phone, Apple has a team that will manually vet the matches, so no pineapple picture or a fuzzy forced hash collision picture will cause the authorities to be notified. So if you're worried someone will secretly send fake CSAM hash collision images to your phone to trigger the process, the worst that will happen is that some poor sod at App…

How would they manually vet the matches, except by looking at the matched pictures?

And here's the real question, what's to stop them from using this on say: political memes instead of CSAM?

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#463

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

Exactly, I think people are just getting a little too worked up over this whole thing. Apple computes a hash of each image you upload to iCloud then check it against a list of CP hashes. Of all the things in the world to get worked up over, this is ridiculous. I get it, the mechanism they're using has apparent flaws, and maybe some whacko could somehow get access to your phone and start uploading things that trick th…

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Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#464

Desktop - Ubuntu 20.04. Everything works and my requirements are quite advanced - bunch of games on Steam, pro level audio production studio just to mention a few things. Laptop - Dell Precision 7750, Xeon CPU, 64 GB RAM, bought with Ubuntu pre-installed. Beast of a laptop, superior thermals, wipes the floor with a mac. Phone - Google Pixel. I consider that a lesser evil choice to Apple's walled garden. It's rooted,…

> Phone - Google Pixel Pretty sure your photos are still getting scanned for CSAM anyway, then. Google Photos normally are backed up in their cloud, and they do scanning there.

Yeah, so don't upload your pictures to google photo. The main take away here is find an alternate backup cloud spot or host your own. Apple is forcing spying software on their phones on the customer to use your very own device to spy. Unless you're simply trying to avoid false positives as a reason, most people are complaining about apple turning their device into a government 4th amendment free zone.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#465

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If hashes are uploaded to devices, they can be extracted and images that clash against it can be created. Many organizations have the hashes, so they could leak nonetheless. Either way, I don't think that's a major problem. If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple as CSAM, you only need to produce the picture of a pineapple to defend yourself against any accusations. If clashes are too commonplace, the ent…

> If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple as CSAM, you only need to produce the picture of a pineapple to defend yourself against any accusations. If the system interprets a picture of a pineapple on your phone as CSAM, after Apple notifies the authorities they have identified child porn on your phone, after the police detain you with the courtesies afforded to all alleged pedophiles, after you cough up you…

I mean, that's one imaginary scenario. On the other hand, it's quite likely that upon a match the offending picture in full res is stored in an enclave on your device, and/or encrypted in the cloud, in such a way that it cannot be deleted by the user.

If they know this attack is possible, Apple, not being idiots, will cover their asses in court by saying that a match is merely strong evidence that the user may have had CSAM on their account, but that it cannot be said for certain unless the full image is obtained by the authorities, and that the full image should be where they say it is, with the voucher made by the device.

Because of that, prosecutors are unlikely to want to move forward without better evidence: Apple may very well testify for the defence if they do, and judges will ultimately chew them out. So yeah, I suppose rashness and incompetence in some parties may lead to a very uncomfortable situation, but ultimately it is likely that the police would be reprimanded for it and that it would be a lot more cautious afterwards.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#466

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> after Apple notifies the authorities they have identified child porn on your phone, Apple has a team that will manually vet the matches, so no pineapple picture or a fuzzy forced hash collision picture will cause the authorities to be notified. So if you're worried someone will secretly send fake CSAM hash collision images to your phone to trigger the process, the worst that will happen is that some poor sod at App…

How would they manually vet the matches, except by looking at the matched pictures? And here's the real question, what's to stop them from using this on say: political memes instead of CSAM?

They have access to a "visual derivative" (which I suppose is their way of saying "thumbnail") but it probably wouldn't help if the adversarial example is normal porn. This being said, once the authorities are contacted, they will have to work to obtain the full image, because if all they have is a thumbnail and a voucher, the evidence would probably be thrown out in court.

As for using it for other things than CSAM, well, for one, Apple would know, because the thumbnails would show political memes, so they'd have to be in on the conspiracy. They probably don't want that liability. Furthermore, the hashes are supposed to be auditable: a third party could check that they are what they are, a court order could order such an audit, and it would be suspicious for Apple to refuse. They wouldn't want to include anything that could piss off any sufficiently powerful government or, say, the EU, because they are likely to figure it out. And if they give different hashes to different citizens, that will also be obvious.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#467
post #430

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would fragmentation be a problem as an Android user?

google doesn't control for device screen sizes, software that other vendors load on, or the CPU/ram/storage on the phone, watch, or tablet. they also allow 3rd party app stores. this creates an experience that is out of google's control and in a lot of cases is sub optimal for the user. it's not as stream lined or polished as it could be.

Any example? I've been using both iOS and Android devices of all shapes and form factors since both launched (and I work at a mobile app editing co) and have no idea of the inconvenience for end users.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#468

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Linux needs a decent productivity suite of apps (preview, mail, calendar etc) the current offering is terrible

Replacements, all decent or better: - Preview: GNOME Document Viewer (now supports PDF form filling), Master PDF Editor (paid and proprietary), built-in PDF editor in Firefox/Chromium, Okular; GNOME Image Viewer, Gwenview, Pantheon Photos (part of elementary OS) - Mail: Thunderbird, Evolution, Kontact (KMail component), Geary, Pantheon Mail, Claws Mail, Mailspring - Calendar: Thunderbird (built-in calendar), GNOME Ca…

A couple of weeks ago I needed to do some very simple PDF "editing": I had 2 PDFs (A and B) and I needed to get some pages 2 (of 5) from PDF-A and 2 (of 5) pages of PDF-B into a single PDF. I tried to do that on Linux Mint and it was a nightmare: Download PDFSam, create PDF from PDF-A with 2 pages, create PDF from PDF-B with 2 pages and then merge those 2 PDFs.

The way I achieve that in my Mac is by opening both file in preview, select and drag the pages I want from PDF-A to PDF-B and then select and delete the pages I don't want from PDF-B.

Why do these simple things have to be so cumbersome in Linux in 2021?

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#469

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

Agreed, I use Linux as my desktop PC (gaming and tinkering), Mac as my work PC and the Windows computer I had just died (Surface Pro 4). My mobile is an Android.

I don't any hardware or software developer... I don't really care if the US is reading my emails, images, chats and whatnot. I choose not to worry about those sort of things.

My product choices are more related to functionality and basic ROI.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#470

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm trusting in the hacker community with this. If Apple really is trying to sneak in a CSAM database on your phone with iCloud disabled, someone WILL catch it and raise so much hell we'll all hear it.

iOS is open source now?

Network sniffers are.
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