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Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

aljazeera.com

41–50 of 129 posts

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage already analyzes your messages to preview urls, show YouTube videos, highlight dates, etc. Are those also backdoors?

I don't think so, it doesn't really need to "analyze" your messages to do preview urls, show videos... Those are more like frontend stuff IMO

No more frontend than running a basic subject recognition on a photo.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#42
post #9

After seeing all these posts here and not hearing much about it outside of this space I’m starting to think that the cost benefit analysis that Apple did was that the profit from very likely convincing parents to spend a little more to get their children an iPhone as their first phone (and probably lock those children into their ecosystem) because of these features was greater than the amount of users who would switc…

And the NN totally-offline¹ optional configurable check is a good thing! Heck, I'd've enabled it on my own phone if I had an iPhone; it'd've made me feel that much better about carrying an internet-connected camera around with me wherever I went, if I knew it'd warn me if I accidentally photographed myself naked (or somehow decided to do so deliberately, in a moment of foolishness). They built two different systems,…

Honestly, this is deeply concerning. Apple shouldn't be in a position to be able to police what photos we take. If I'm a teen and I sext with a partner, does that mean that in the near future, our messages/photos will be flagged and reviewed for "child porn" and forwarded to police enforcement? That's horrifying and incredibly unfair to young people exploring their sexuality in a completely consensual and normal way.

There's nothing wrong with taking pictures of yourself nude and/or sharing these with whoever you want. This goes towards territory that I find deeply uncomfortable.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#43

Im not sure if im missing something here, but from what I understand, what Apple is proposing is an enormous privacy boon that seems to be completely misunderstood. All cloud providers are required to, and do, make these scans. The proposal provides a way for them to comply with that requirement, but at the same time, allows them to completely lock themselves out of being able to decrypt your data in the cloud, excep…

They could comply with a nation state's demands to scan a billion iPhones for a politically dangerous photo.

You'd need 30 of them. And upload them iCloud.

I guess the neural part is a bit of a blackbox, im not sure if theres a way for external parties to verify its legitimatcy.

But again, any change to would go noticed.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#44

Is there a possibility that this could be some kind of Dual_EC type of backdoor they are trying to insert under the guise of something "positive" -- i.e. CSAM? As others have said elsewhere, it seems so out of the blue like they were pressured from somewhere, which I guess I default to assuming government. After reading "The Hacker and the State" by Ben Buchanan, it made me even more aware of how much depth and penet…

iOS is closed source and builds are not reproducible by the public. You have zero control over what is running on the iPhone. It is also extremely challenging to go through each executable and firmware on the phone to probe for backdoors. Sophisticated backdoors won't be apparent even if you had the executable data dump for every iPhone system.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

iMessage already analyzes your messages to preview urls, show YouTube videos, highlight dates, etc. Are those also backdoors?

I don't think so, it doesn't really need to "analyze" your messages to do preview urls, show videos... Those are more like frontend stuff IMO

But people are mad precisely because the CSAM scanning is being done as "frontend stuff".

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#46
post #17

Is aljazeera.com the only outlet willing to cover this aspect of Apple's decision? It seems like the US media is effectively ignoring the complaints.

Though not in English, it was covered in Dutch media as well: https://nos.nl/artikel/2392894-apple-wil-iphones-scannen-op-...

Edit: BBC as well it seems: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/technology-58109748

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#47

Im not sure if im missing something here, but from what I understand, what Apple is proposing is an enormous privacy boon that seems to be completely misunderstood. All cloud providers are required to, and do, make these scans. The proposal provides a way for them to comply with that requirement, but at the same time, allows them to completely lock themselves out of being able to decrypt your data in the cloud, excep…

The concern is that Apple is handing governments a new tool to go “give me a list of all users that have this photo”. It could track down dissidents based on this and combined with metadata is probably sufficient to pinpoint who took a particular picture.

Think you shared that picture of police brutality anonymously? Think again.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the NN totally-offline¹ optional configurable check is a good thing! Heck, I'd've enabled it on my own phone if I had an iPhone; it'd've made me feel that much better about carrying an internet-connected camera around with me wherever I went, if I knew it'd warn me if I accidentally photographed myself naked (or somehow decided to do so deliberately, in a moment of foolishness). They built two different systems,…

Honestly, this is deeply concerning. Apple shouldn't be in a position to be able to police what photos we take. If I'm a teen and I sext with a partner, does that mean that in the near future, our messages/photos will be flagged and reviewed for "child porn" and forwarded to police enforcement? That's horrifying and incredibly unfair to young people exploring their sexuality in a completely consensual and normal way.…

> If I'm a teen and I sext with a partner, does that mean that in the near future, our messages/photos will be flagged and reviewed for "child porn" and forwarded to police enforcement?

No. The system looks for files that are similar to known illegal content. It is not a general purpose underage nude photograph detector.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#49
post #25
post #17

Is aljazeera.com the only outlet willing to cover this aspect of Apple's decision? It seems like the US media is effectively ignoring the complaints.

Seems so, our corporate media is largely comprised of cowards and pay-for-play. Most media is deeply unprofitable, and it compensates for this by taking payment for ads disguised as organic content (have first hand experience with this that has honestly made me cynical). Most media won’t bite the hand that literally feeds them.

So did you do any research before you claimed that corporate media are staying silent on this issue?

The other sibling replies posted various articles if you're interested.

Re: Apple urged to drop plans to scan iMessages, images for sex abuse

#50
post #44

Is there a possibility that this could be some kind of Dual_EC type of backdoor they are trying to insert under the guise of something "positive" -- i.e. CSAM? As others have said elsewhere, it seems so out of the blue like they were pressured from somewhere, which I guess I default to assuming government. After reading "The Hacker and the State" by Ben Buchanan, it made me even more aware of how much depth and penet…

iOS is closed source and builds are not reproducible by the public. You have zero control over what is running on the iPhone. It is also extremely challenging to go through each executable and firmware on the phone to probe for backdoors. Sophisticated backdoors won't be apparent even if you had the executable data dump for every iPhone system.

Right, I understand that. I guess my question was more of a general one on whether people think Apple in particular would cooperate with the government in that way? Obviously the San Bernardino shooter case comes to mind as an example of Apple not just folding to the government pressure.
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