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Profanity works

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Re: Profanity works

#21

Post by aaronblohowiak »

qqq wrote: post #8
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. To put it in another's words, "my momma raised me right."

Do you disagree because of a prejudice, or do you have well thought out reasons? If you have reasons, could you post them?

Reason #1: Cursing is not the best choice of words. Cursing usually involves using words for bodily functions or religious notions. Neither category is germane to most situations that people curse in, and in those situations there are more informative options that don't demonize their subjects. I don't need to allude to disgusting, private or holy topics in order to express displeasure, shock or degrees of extremeness.

Reason #2: I hope that I am smart enough and have enough integrity to communicate without invoking the taboo. Choosing to make the trade between rational, descriptive language and taboo language in order to evoke an emotional response in your audience is a compromise of reason. It is the difference between reading The Economist and listening to Howard Stern -- one attempts (however successfully) to make a reasoned and informative argument about a topic and the other attempts to persuade by appealing to the primitive and more basic nature.

Reason #3: It conveys a lack of respect for propriety. Personal liberty is an ideal that I support. The abandonment of social norms is not. I do not think that everyone should stop cursing, nor am I a fan of the prohibition of materials and media containing language whose intent is to offend. I do consider refraining from partaking to be a personal decision to live by a more stringent moral standard.

Re: Profanity works

#22

Post by qqq »

aaronblohowiak wrote: post #21
qqq wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you disagree because of a prejudice, or do you have well thought out reasons? If you have reasons, could you post them?

Reason #1: Cursing is not the best choice of words. Cursing usually involves using words for bodily functions or religious notions. Neither category is germane to most situations that people curse in, and in those situations there are more informative options that don't demonize their subjects. I don't need to allude to disgusting, private or holy topics in order to express displeasure, shock or degrees of extremenes…

Your first reason is in favor of cursing infrequently, not never.

Your second reason is opposed to cursing only in certain situations, roughly trying to be rational.

Your third reason is in favor of cursing infrequently, not never. (Unless you think propriety should be respected 100% in all situations.)

Therefore, you have not given any blanket objections to cursing, only reasons to curse less frequently.

I have no comment about whether I agree with that, I just want to be clear about what you did and did not argue for.

Re: Profanity works

#23

Post by newt0311 »

Small point. There is a prisoner's dilemma here. As profanity is used more and more often, it becomes less jarring (consider bloody, bloomin, etc.. as examples of prior swear words). Thus, they their very use, these words become less useful. However, any individual author has no incentive to stop using these words.

Eventually, we will probably have new curse words for english.

Re: Profanity works

#24

Post by paulgb »

newt0311 wrote: post #23

Small point. There is a prisoner's dilemma here. As profanity is used more and more often, it becomes less jarring (consider bloody, bloomin, etc.. as examples of prior swear words). Thus, they their very use, these words become less useful. However, any individual author has no incentive to stop using these words. Eventually, we will probably have new curse words for english.

Interesting point, but I think the tragedy of the commons is a more fitting analogy than the prisoner's dilemma.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons

Re: Profanity works

#25

Post by mattmaroon »

swombat wrote: post #4

Totally agree. I've never understood people who seem afraid to use words. As a writer, I consider the whole english language fair game. Obviously, you shouldn't swear for no reason, but as David points out, swear words can be effectively used for emphasis and to add some extra passion.

I understand why a lot of people don't. Swearing is often a crutch for the uncreative, and a lot of people realize that. To use it effectively takes talent, and to use it ineffectively can be pretty damaging, so most people are probably better off just leaving it alone. Someone like Bill Cosby can be thought of as a far better comedian than he really is simply for not using it.

I have a feeling that if I were a better programmer I could come up with a great analogy here, but alas, I'm a hack.

Re: Profanity works

#26

Post by mattmaroon »

iamdave wrote: post #17
aaronblohowiak wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respectfully disagree. To put it in another's words, "my momma raised me right."

Did she, pray tell for this discourse ever tell you why saying such words offended people, or were you raised like I was? Namely: This this this and this are wrong. Why? Because I said they're wrong.

It's pretty hard to come up with any better rationalization than "because I said so" for why "fornicate" is alright to say and "fuck" isn't. I've yet to hear one.

Re: Profanity works

#29

Post by BrandonM »

mattmaroon wrote: post #26
iamdave wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did she, pray tell for this discourse ever tell you why saying such words offended people, or were you raised like I was? Namely: This this this and this are wrong. Why? Because I said they're wrong.

It's pretty hard to come up with any better rationalization than "because I said so" for why "fornicate" is alright to say and "fuck" isn't. I've yet to hear one.

Fuck is actually a much prettier, more direct word. Fornicate? That sounds terrible and disgusting.

Re: Profanity works

#30

Post by indiejade »

electromagnetic wrote: post #10
swombat wrote: post #4

Totally agree. I've never understood people who seem afraid to use words. As a writer, I consider the whole english language fair game. Obviously, you shouldn't swear for no reason, but as David points out, swear words can be effectively used for emphasis and to add some extra passion.

I'd second you on that. While working as a reviewer I found that swearing when talking to my boss made him understand my point better. Similarly I've found that when talking to people, sometimes dropping a 'fuck' in as punctuation scores gold. I worked as an electrician, and when I add the 'F' in there, people recognise it isn't my opinion I'm expressing when it comes to doing something, it's a simple fact. Again, so…

Hmm. I'm not generally a fan of profanity-spewing in speech. However, I would agree w/David in that it can be an effective tool, but would add the disclaimer of occasionally; it's effective if it's used rarely enough to garner an actual response from the intended audience. As per his example of speaking at conferences. Most of the time, however, a person is known as either someone who constantly spews profanities or someone who doesn't. People who are the latter lose their shock factor quickly.

Writing, on the other hand, rarely calls for it . . . except in contexts like fictional writing where it can be used to paint a character, usually someone with a low IQ.

And it's not very effective in non-fiction writing / blogging, but for the rare instances it's meant to be funny. If I'm writing some fuming diatribe, typing just to "let off steam," or whatever, I've found that it is much more effective (and satisfying) to craft perfectly-reasoned logical sentences about the reason(s) I'm pissed off without the repeated use of four-letter words.

edits: indie also has a difficult time crafting logical or gramatickally-correct sentences when tired ;)

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