Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

techcrunch.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

111–120 of 144 posts

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#111

Post by ajross »

nwmcsween wrote: post #76
markbao wrote: post #30

Wow. I love AirBnB, and I hate to say it, but that was a completely boneheaded move. There is absolutely no doubt that EJ is very public on this issue. If it's true that AirBnB tried to cover up the problem, then why? Did the founders think that EJ wouldn't turn around and say that they're asking her to remove the post? Handling this situation should be a top priority for AirBnB. There's the potential that the mainst…

The fact that this occurred 5 weeks ago yet nothing has been done to rectify this and that the co-founder wanted the victim to put a spin on the situation is astounding.

That's what I keep thinking too. Ignoring all the ethical and legal issues here: this was just obviously a huge risk to the company from the instant they heard about it. How do you let weeks go by without getting closure on this? Get the senior executives on the phone with her every day, make sure she knows everything you know, make absolutely certain she isn't stewing in silence thinking about writing a blog post. Really, that's just customer service 101.

Instead AirBnB stuck their heads in the sand and ignored it until it went viral. Bad, bad sign. Which new company-breaking disaster is going to be ignored next?

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#112

Post by rg »

ig1 wrote: post #63
bignoggins wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

that is correct. The person who put up the listing claims to be friends with the tenant. The tenant has not paid rent in 4 months and his contract explicitly forbids subletting. So I am staying in this apartment illegally. Luckily, the owner is nice enough to let us stay for the remainder of our time without compensation. I have no idea how common this situation is but this is only our 6th time using airbnb and if th…

I don't know about in Germany, but in the UK it's common for contracts to have a clause ban subletting, but in practice it's considered unenforceable. Also unless the landlord has been through the formal eviction process the tenant probably still has a legal right to the property. From when I lived in Berlin it seemed subletting rental apartments wasn't uncommon. Subletting where you live has been common practice in…

Not so true about the UK. In my building in London, one unit was being quietly sublet for holiday-type use, in violation of the contract, and when complaints from the residents' association were not heeded a court order put an end to the illegal sublettings.

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#113

Post by singular »

sixtofour wrote: post #109
singular wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok I'll bite; actually quite different - there are (very) strong indications that the NotW's problems were part of the culture there which makes the idea that the bosses did not know seem very unlikely. In this case there are no such indications afaik. In any case I wasn't taking a position (I simply do not know enough to do so), rather I wanted to provide some balance to the assertion that they spam which was stated…

The scale is obviously different, so in that sense I wasn't fair. But the defense is exactly the same, disclaiming responsibility for the acts of your contractors. I don't think any victim (Craigslist, NoTW phone hackees) cares about the fine point of the employment relationship. EDIT: took EJ off the parenthesized list of victims, as she was not the victim of a contractor.

I think things differ in 3 main respects -

1. Whether there was an ongoing culture of doing the wrong thing - NotW yes, AirBnb not so much (afaik).

2. Whether there is an indication that the defence is actually completely false (i.e. whether the guys in charge actually did know and sanction these things) - again there are some strong indications that this was the case at the NotW, especially if you take the culture into account (i.e. - how did that culture come about if there wasn't some degree of either asking for hacking to be performed or not wanting to know whether it was - both equally worthy of blame). Again AirBnB - not so much.

3. And of course, scale, though I didn't mean to criticise that particular difference.

The victims might not care about the finer points, but in terms of determining who is to blame it does matter. Obviously there is the point that employees are the responsibility of the company, however if they do something the employer was not aware of then that seems to me to be a sort of technicality.

Anyway, getting into [1] territory now so should probably just leave it at that :)

[1]: http://xkcd.com/386/

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#115

Post by jordanb »

vessenes wrote: post #35

This is a seriously damning essay from someone who's clearly working through PTSD issues (or is an amazing liar). Part of the issue is that young fast-growth CEOs don't major on empathy, typically. It's somewhat contrary to the necessities of the job. These co-founders have absolutely no concept of how this woman feels, or if they do, they have determined that they won't let her know about it. The best thing say Paul…

> This is a seriously damning essay from someone who's clearly working through PTSD issues (or is an amazing liar).

I'm not going to defend AirBNB but I do have to say that I have an incredibly hard time identifying with this woman's writing.

Ultimately, some tweakers trashed her apartment and stole her stuff. Is that a bummer? Of course. If that happened to me, would I be angry, furious? Absolutely. Would I change the locks, clean up, and lawyer up on AirBNB? I guarantee it.

But the sheer levels of emotion she's experiencing over an event where, basically, her stuff got trashed, suggests to me that she probably had so many emotional stability issues to begin with that she shouldn't have been participating in something where "strangers trash your apartment" is obviously at risk of happening.

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#116

Post by tygorius »

stef25 wrote: post #110

As much as this sucks for EJ, she is being quite the crybaby. This has nothing to do with AirBnB and everything to do with the fact she handed over the keys to her personal flat (containing many expensive items and personal documents) to a complete stranger. The medium through which this stranger found you, be it a pinboard at a supermarket, craiglist, airbnb or through a foaf, is irrelevant. Initially AirBnB may hav…

This has nothing to do with AirBnB

Yes, so far as we know, the persons who robbed and trashed EJ's home were not employees of AirBnB.

In just about every other respect, however, this has everything to do with AirBnB. Four big points that have struck me:

* From a business perpective, such incidents were inevitable and yet the company seems to have had no crisis management plan in place. That is simply astounding.

* From a consumer perspective, it's worth warning potential users of the service that the company's prior attitude was "Don't worry, no one will steal your grand piano". As EJ points out, if AirBnB's "service" offers no more protection and fewer warnings than a free Craigslist alternative, you may want to reconsider using them.

* Given that some small percentage of renters are intent on breaking through your locked doors and storage cabinets looking for valuables, you might just want to reconsider renting your home out to people you don't personally know and trust. At the very least, a viewing of "Pacific Heights" is in order. (A landlord acquaintence suggested the film be required viewing for anyone who is considering becoming a landlord.) This might not seem AirBnB-relevant at first, but when you consider AirBnB's facile "grand piano" Web page, it seems quite relevant.

* Imagine if EJ had gotten suspicious and decided to check up on the renters herself or asked a friend to do it for her. Scenarios escalating to rape and/or murder are not farfetched. Even if you can ignore the pain and suffering of the victims, imagine what a PR disaster that would have been for AirBnB. (Which brings us back to the first point.)

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#118

Post by VladRussian »

hluska wrote: post #103
VladRussian wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

as one smart commenter http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820778 has finally got it (and as usually - once somebody was able to get it and explained to the rest of us, it seems obvious ) - PTSD

I'm sorry, but I disagree with you (and upvoted that post). While post traumatic stress disorder is highly individualistic, one of the classic symptoms is a desire not to be reminded of the trauma (especially only five weeks after). Usually, at this point, a victim would be doing everything possible not to think of it. Granted, PTSD is highly individualistic, but if you read the relevant medical literature, this is n…

another classical symptom is flashbacks, and they aren't necessarily separated by any specific time period from the original event.

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#119

Post by Osiris »

ck2 wrote: post #74

If you care for the reaction from someone who doesn't really know/understand what Airbnb is: "Who lets strangers into their home, unsupervised?" Does make some sense, right? Who would?

I have never used the service, but I always assumed that they pre-screened the customers and the hosts. I'm really surprised to hear that they don't have a screening process, like background checks, and that they don't carry some for on insurance to cover damages.

They certainly don't seem to make the effort to inform hosts of those two points. Hosts should be completely aware that AirBnB, 1) does NO background checks or verifications on possible tenants, and 2) does NOT insure any damages.

Re: Airbnb Victim Speaks Again: Homeless, Scared And Angry

#120

Post by shawnee_ »

The headline is a bit too much, even for TechCrunch.

EJ is not "homeless". She almost certainly has never been homeless and will never be homeless; this is an insult to people who have been homeless, broke, and literally have nowhere to go. Choosing to not stay in a $3.8K / month loft in SF does not a homeless person make.

And she's at least a bit responsible for feeding the sensationalism of this; it is coming off a bit Drama Queen.

Post reply on HN