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Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

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Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#41

Post by kaolinite »

It’s interesting to me how quickly I’ve soured on the concept of open banking, which on paper sounds fantastic and originally I was very much in favour of. And which I’ve used personally to make it easier to extract my own data for my own use.

However more often than not now I’m seeing it used for really invasive applications. Such as when I rented my most recent apartment and they asked to use open banking to verify our finances, which as far as I know would have given them access to every single transaction going back a decade or so. The agent was confused as to why I wouldn’t go ahead with it and ultimately let us opt out, but I do worry that at some point I won’t have much choice but to accept.

I’ve also seen credit scoring companies that suggest you’ll get a better credit score if you use open banking to hand over your transactions. I have no need to use that but I suspect others who are desperate to increase their chances of getting a mortgage, etc, won’t have much of a choice.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#42

Post by heavyset_go »

barbazoo wrote: post #4

This sounds so futuristic which is awesome but at the same time banks like Tangerine, which otherwise I have nothing but praise for, don't even allow be to use a password more secure than a 4-6 digit numeric passcode. Obviously no 2FA. Sorry, that has little to do with the submission, I just had to vent about banks.

> Obviously no 2FA.

Don't worry, you really aren't missing out on much security because the 2FA most banks implement just involves sending you an SMS.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#43

Post by toomuchtodo »

SilverRed wrote: post #38
frosted-flakes wrote: post #13

It's about time. When I learned that applications like YNAB (You Need A Budget) use services like Plaid to connect to my bank account, and that these services literally take my username and password and impersonate me to get my banking data, I was a little sketched out. I use YNAB every day, and having it connected to my bank account is incredibly useful, but if something goes wrong and Plaid loses my money somehow,…

I think the future is that banks/bank apps will do the budgeting stuff themselves. Most bank apps will now break down your monthly spending by categories. My bank app shows me my weekly and monthly spend compared to previous periods, how much I spent in each category, how much I spent at each business, how much I have spent this month so far compared to the same time last month and etc.

Startups prove the model, and then legacy enterprises adopt.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#44

Post by smnrchrds »

neom wrote: post #37
version_five wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're talking to me. I'm not arguing for screen scraping. I'm stating my experience as a Canadian that our oligopolies use legislation like this as a way to discourage competition, under the guise of helping users. And they rely on people like you to talk about how great it is that we're all getting a made in Canada open banking solution when what we'll really get is something that makes new entry impossible…

I'm curious what you think you would get from a deregulated banking sector and a deregulated telecom sector? As far as I see it, people in Thunder Bay, Swan River, Bas-Saint-Laurent, or, etc etc wouldn't have had cell service for a long time, maybe even still today, and we might have cheaper cell plans and more data and faster speeds in Toronto and Vancouver. Canadian economy would be in a considerably weaker positio…

Thunder Bay have its very own mobile carrier, which is quite a feat for a town of 100k people.

https://www.tbaytel.net

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#45

Post by nelblu »

barbazoo wrote: post #4

This sounds so futuristic which is awesome but at the same time banks like Tangerine, which otherwise I have nothing but praise for, don't even allow be to use a password more secure than a 4-6 digit numeric passcode. Obviously no 2FA. Sorry, that has little to do with the submission, I just had to vent about banks.

Tangerine recently launched 2FA but it is SMS based only.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#46

Post by SilverRed »

version_five wrote: post #2

I'm guessing from this that Canada's banks are upset about getting their grass cut and are looking to regulate new entrants out of business. That's usually what a "made in Canada" solution means.

The small banks are almost always 10 years ahead of the big banks on apis and open systems.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#47

Post by jpmoral »

version_five wrote: post #28
ohazi wrote: post #24

To everyone in this thread complaining that this is just Canada being Canada and trying to snuff out the upstarts... what the fuck are you going on about? I'm a US citizen and I want this screen scraping / credential sharing / whatever you want to call it to die in a fire already. Forcing banks to implement any sort of API access seems both preferable to the dumpster fire we have today, as well as more inviting to up…

I guess you're talking to me. I'm not arguing for screen scraping. I'm stating my experience as a Canadian that our oligopolies use legislation like this as a way to discourage competition, under the guise of helping users. And they rely on people like you to talk about how great it is that we're all getting a made in Canada open banking solution when what we'll really get is something that makes new entry impossible…

I don't think anyone is arguing that regulation can't and has never been used to stifle competition. It's fine to be skeptical but that can't be a reason to keep the status quo.

What would a solution look like for you? Would it be that screen-scraping be banned and open banking APIs be encouraged but not mandated? Or mandated within X years for existing banks or within X years of establishing a new bank? Something else?

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#48

Post by SilverRed »

jonny_eh wrote: post #10

What's open banking? What's the context?

Requiring all banks provide an api to get your data out. The alternative is that 3rd party services ask for your actual bank login details and they log in as you to parse the banks html to get your details out.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#49

Post by neom »

smnrchrds wrote: post #44
neom wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm curious what you think you would get from a deregulated banking sector and a deregulated telecom sector? As far as I see it, people in Thunder Bay, Swan River, Bas-Saint-Laurent, or, etc etc wouldn't have had cell service for a long time, maybe even still today, and we might have cheaper cell plans and more data and faster speeds in Toronto and Vancouver. Canadian economy would be in a considerably weaker positio…

Thunder Bay have its very own mobile carrier, which is quite a feat for a town of 100k people. https://www.tbaytel.net

I was born in Thunder Bay. :) Maybe Fort Frances would have been a better example, basically the cell and internet in Fort Frances was non-existent/didn't work 90% of the time till the province forced Tbay Tel & Shaw to service the region correctly, and we paid the same prices as folks in Tbay, and I'm sure it made little to no economic sense to be servicing that far up north at that time, but I'm sure glad they did.

Re: Canada calls screen scraping ‘unsecure,’ sets Open Banking target for 2023

#50

Post by 1123581321 »

echlebek wrote: post #35
version_five wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess you're talking to me. I'm not arguing for screen scraping. I'm stating my experience as a Canadian that our oligopolies use legislation like this as a way to discourage competition, under the guise of helping users. And they rely on people like you to talk about how great it is that we're all getting a made in Canada open banking solution when what we'll really get is something that makes new entry impossible…

So to recap, Canada without open banking: 5 big banks, impossible to compete. Canada with open banking: 5 big banks, impossible to compete.

I believe he’s saying that adding this flavor of open banking regulation, on top of the others, further entrenches the incumbents, meaning the situation is not identical as future unwinding of these defenses will have more work to do. In addition, the “open banking” would be implemented in a less than ideal way from the perspective of consumers and squander an opportunity to meaningfully improve retail banking and third party retail financial tools. So the situation would not be as patly identical as you present it.
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