Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight • Hacker News Board

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#321

Post by rkalla » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:02 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

Ed, you put it exactly right.

Airbnb's "wrap this up, get rid of it" response is what I would categorize as a typical, immature response to a problem.

Make it go away, I don't want to look at it.

A responsible, empathetic response would be exactly what you typed up.

The co-founder that talked to her on the phone should realize that embracing his principles in times like these will catapult him (or her) to success faster than trying to slide your way past problems as best they can.

Anything they do "nice" at this point I'll perceive as damage-control, which is unfortunate.

They missed that window of opportunity to shine weeks ago. Now it is just them trying to cover their hides and avoid a lawsuit.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#322

Post by run4yourlives » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:04 PM UTC

a3camero wrote: post #213

wheels wrote: post #184

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Insurance (and by extension dealing with insurance fraud) for this sort of thing is a solved problem. They don't need to do it in house. They just pick up a policy from one of the institutional insurers and pass on the cost with a markup. Edit: To clarify, by "this sort of thing" I don't mean "Airbnb like businesses". There's nothing particularly novel about insuring homes, their contents or vacation rentals. An inst…

I doubt it is a solved problem or AirBNB would be using it. Imagine what the negotiations would be like. They need insurance for: -An open-ended number of people worldwide (constantly changing) -Any sort of property from shitty apartments all the way to fancy houses (no estimate of value possible, requires appraisers) -Damage/theft caused by people with unverified identities (all they have is CC, stolen?) -Any and al…

Lloyd's will insure it if you can think of it, basically.

AirBnB is not that far out there that they couldn't get at least three special risk companies to give them a decent quote.

I'm in the insurance field btw.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#323

Post by davesims » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:04 PM UTC

edw519 wrote: post #303

jacquesm wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: Second that, and please do not try to instruct the victim in a way that can be construed as trying to cover things up, 'the cover up is worse than the crime' will come back to haunt you big time. > 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures…

She's not an expert in anything, She's the world's foremost authority on personal suffering from the elephant right on Airbnb's critical path. Do not underestimate the power of this. I can visualize a team of people working on this issue and thinking that they're done with EJ saying, "No we're not. This isn't right yet." Sometimes the pain of experience provides enough determination to outweigh all of our business pl…

I appreciate the sentiment, but it would seem gratuitous and over-reaching on AirBnB's part. Your other suggestions I agree with.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#324

Post by mikeleeorg » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:07 PM UTC

brianchesky wrote: post #186

edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

we are standing by, and we just contacted her again telling her that we will do whatever we can to help.

I sincerely hope this is not true:

"He then addressed his concerns about my blog post, and the potentially negative impact it could have on his company’s growth and current round of funding. During this call and in messages thereafter, he requested that I shut down the blog altogether or limit its access, and a few weeks later, suggested that I update the blog with a “twist" of good news so as to “complete[s] the story”."

Being a startup founder, I empathize with the difficulties AirBnB is facing with this crime of one of their customers. Being a potential AirBnB host, this makes me a bit nervous.

Being a concerned citizen, I don't care at all how such a crime impacts the company's profitability & image; all I care about is whether or not the company has the integrity to do the right thing.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#325

Post by estel » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:13 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #319

edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

How does this fit with the linked article, where the lady in question claims her personal liason at the company hadn't even contacted her in a month? How does that possibly match up with "doing everything they could be doing to help this woman" when she herself clearly feels ignored?

Edit: I'm not accusing the AirBNB guys of being bad guys: I don't know them. But this doesn't seem to address, and seems somewhat contradicted by, the concerns raised by the linked blog.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#326

Post by rdl » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

hooande wrote: post #77

alnayyir wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm making this analogy extreme for the sake of clarity not because I think it's legitimately comparable: Charles Manson's friends and followers were pretty fond of him too. Leadership of a company tends to attract rather extreme personalities in all kinds of directions. One of the tendencies that is extremely common is sociopathy. Sociopathy is usually found is charismatic, likable people, but those people don't act…

Let me clear this up for you: Brian Chesky is not a sociopath.

Definitely not a sociopath (he and Joe are great guys; the AirBnB people I've met have all come across as much more social and friendly than most other startups).

Actually, a sociopath with $5b at risk over $10-20k might actually do a better job managing this kind of thing than a genuinely good guy who doesn't constantly think about how to defraud of hurt people and then lie to cover it up.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#327

Post by pg » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

estel wrote: post #325

pg wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

How does this fit with the linked article, where the lady in question claims her personal liason at the company hadn't even contacted her in a month? How does that possibly match up with "doing everything they could be doing to help this woman" when she herself clearly feels ignored? Edit: I'm not accusing the AirBNB guys of being bad guys: I don't know them. But this doesn't seem to address, and seems somewhat contr…

Brian told me that someone from Airbnb called her just a few hours before she published this most recent post.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#328

Post by SkyMarshal » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:17 PM UTC

codeglomeration wrote: post #206

brianchesky wrote: post #151

Brian Chesky (Airbnb CEO) here. My heart goes out to our host. My co-founder has contacted her multiple times, as recently as last night, and we have again offered to help her in any way that she needs. We will continue to make ourselves available to her to do whatever she asks of us in this time of need. We have encouraged her to reach us so that we can help her through this, and we are standing by.

I think you need to act on this, rather than just keep making promises. I also believe you would have helped already if you really wanted to. You're essentially asking her right now to be a beggar, and putting her into an even more degrading position. What do you expect her to do? Write you that she needs $1000 for a new laptop, $100 for a new door, $50 for new locks? Put yourself in her shoes. Doubt you would do tha…

You're exactly right on this. She also simply lacks the energy to do everything she needs to do to overcome this. AirBnB could really turn this from a crisis to an opportunity by taking the bull completely by the horns here, and making her whole again, at least emotionally. Waiting for an emotionally scarred PTSD-victim to figure out and enumerate exactly what they need is not going to cut it.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#329

Post by run4yourlives » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:20 PM UTC

pg wrote: post #319

edw519 wrote: post #141

Airbnb & YC, just fix this please: 1. Get a new place for EJ. Furnish it fully. Pay for everything. 2. Help her restore her virtual identity. Use any resources at your considerable disposal. 3. Help her find her irreplaceable stuff. A few private detectives and a small team of scouters can make more progress in 2 weeks that the SFPD can make in a lifetime. Publish pictures of her grandmother's jewelry to enlist a gia…

I've just learned more about this situation, and it turns out Airbnb has been offering to fix it, from the very beginning. From the beginning they offered to pay to get her a new place and new stuff, and do whatever else she wanted. The story Arrington wrote yesterday about Airbnb not offering to help was bullshit. He asked a company spokesman what Airbnb was doing to help her. The spokesman, who'd been told by their…

Nobody cares about Arrington. That's not AirBnB's problem. AirBnB's problem is "EJ".

I've talked to the Airbnb guys and they are already doing everything they could be doing to help this woman.

If they've been offering to fix it from the start, why haven't they said that? Certainly the victim doesn't believe they've offered much, if anything at all... either that or you've just called her a liar. (I obviously have to allow this as a possibility - that this whole story is fake.)

They clearly need to talk to her more than they are though. Somebody in charge needs to pick up a phone. They need to convince her that it is no longer in her best interests to spout the gory details on her blog. That hasn't been done yet, clearly, so it's hard to say that they are doing everything they can.

I don't think people - at least from what I've read here - are questioning their integrity. People are questioning the optics of what seems to be a decision to defer to lawyers worried about an unknown future possibility rather than to do the right thing in this very real situation. That's what is causing the bad PR, not exaggerating reporters. Cut out the middle men and get one of those founders to pick up a phone already.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#330

Post by SkyMarshal » Fri, Jul 29, 2011, 5:22 PM UTC

runjake wrote: post #317

The people who did this are horrible, and Airbnb definitely has areas they could improve their process. That said, I'm more shocked at "EJ's" naivety and passing of all responsibility on Airbnb. You're renting your place out to complete strangers, not only that, you're leaving all of your valuables there with them. You don't know their real (or the fake one they stole) name until you're already aboard an outbound pla…

True. I've used AirBnB a few times and it was always while the host was still in the apartment. It never occured to me that people would rent their apartment via AirBnB without actually being there.

I do wonder now whether EJ's 'DJ Pattrson' knew she would be away and planned to ransack the place whether she were home or not. If she were home, what would they have done, tied her in the closet, or worse?