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Apple now holding more cash than USA

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21–30 of 130 posts

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#21
post #16

What will happen to the American if the congress does not vote on the rise ?

No one can say for sure. It's a doomsday scenario that no one is really prepared for.

The only thing anyone can say with any certainty is that the next president of the USA will be a Republican, because that's what this is all about. Destroy the economy, blame the incumbent, and scoop up the next election.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#22
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time we had an amnesty, all the money that flooded back in to the USA wasn't reinvested the companies or used to grow the economy, it just want straight into bonuses and dividends.

I'm not sure I follow. Distributing profits to employees (bonuses) or to investors (dividends) is bad? The employees and investors now have more money to buy things or to re-invest. I'm not an economist, but I think that when money flows from A to B, the economy does grow. It doesn't matter if that flow is to employees as bonuses, investors as dividends, or to vendors as business expesnses.

GDP = Gross Domestic Product.

In order to grow GDP, you must increase the production of goods and services domestically.

Sure, more money for investors/employees is not bad. But an amnesty is no different than the government directly giving money to them. It's never bad to give employees a tax credit, but when we're in such dire straits there are more urgent uses for the money. It's never about "Is giving money to X wasteful?" but more about "Is that the best I can do?"

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#23
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. Distributing profits to employees (bonuses) or to investors (dividends) is bad? The employees and investors now have more money to buy things or to re-invest. I'm not an economist, but I think that when money flows from A to B, the economy does grow. It doesn't matter if that flow is to employees as bonuses, investors as dividends, or to vendors as business expesnses.

> I'm not an economist, but I think that when money flows from A to B, the economy does grow. Money moving from one place to another does not always help the economy. When money flows from the corporate coffers directly into the private accounts of its executives, generally little of that money actually flows into the greater economy. When you consider that under normal circumstances 30% of that money would flow into…

Money going to the government to "fund programs" doesn't go into the economy either. There's a possibility it will go to salaries and things, but that's hardly a guarantee. The government doesn't create the economy, private sector growth does. When money goes to "private accounts of executives", and those accounts are in banks and investment funds, that money is going to be used to capitalize new growth (unless they're hoarding that money in Swiss accounts somewhere).

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#24

Supply-side economists, take note.

Unfortunately, they will take note of it as "run the government like a business", which tends to be how supply-side economists would prefer the government to be run anyway.

They want lower revenues for the government. I would hope that it's not the same philosophy for their businesses.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#25
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm not an economist, but I think that when money flows from A to B, the economy does grow. Money moving from one place to another does not always help the economy. When money flows from the corporate coffers directly into the private accounts of its executives, generally little of that money actually flows into the greater economy. When you consider that under normal circumstances 30% of that money would flow into…

Money going to the government to "fund programs" doesn't go into the economy either. There's a possibility it will go to salaries and things, but that's hardly a guarantee. The government doesn't create the economy, private sector growth does. When money goes to "private accounts of executives", and those accounts are in banks and investment funds, that money is going to be used to capitalize new growth (unless they'…

> Money going to the government to "fund programs" doesn't go into the economy either.

It most certainly does. The government doesn't hold any significant amount of money in reserve. Every dollar they receive (and a lot they don't) gets invested in the economy in some way (salary, materials purchases, R&D, etc.)

> When money goes to "private accounts of executives", and those accounts are in banks and investment funds, that money is going to be used to capitalize new growth (unless they're hoarding that money in Swiss accounts somewhere).

This is a lovely dream with little evidence to support it. The idea that rich people getting richer helps the economy is not founded on fact. There's been a tax holiday before. It didn't grow the economy. Tax cuts for the wealthy did not grow the economy. Even if wealthy people invest more when they get wealthier, the real issue is whether that is more valuable to the economy than more dollars flowing through the hands of most people, more dollars flowing into infrastructure investments, etc.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#26
post #20
post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure I follow. Distributing profits to employees (bonuses) or to investors (dividends) is bad? The employees and investors now have more money to buy things or to re-invest. I'm not an economist, but I think that when money flows from A to B, the economy does grow. It doesn't matter if that flow is to employees as bonuses, investors as dividends, or to vendors as business expesnses.

> I'm not an economist, but I think that when money flows from A to B, the economy does grow. Money moving from one place to another does not always help the economy. When money flows from the corporate coffers directly into the private accounts of its executives, generally little of that money actually flows into the greater economy. When you consider that under normal circumstances 30% of that money would flow into…

"private accounts of executives" is an interesting phrase when you cold have said "checking accounts of employees". It conjures up the image of Scrooge McDuck sitting on a pile of gold.

But that money is in the economy. If these "Executives" put it into stocks, then it funds company growth. If they put it into municipal bonds then it funds cities. If they put it into a checking account, then it funds home loans. IF they were to turn it into cash and put it under their mattress-- then it still funds government spending (via inflation.)

The only possible way I can think of to take that money out of the economy-- and granted this is even if your assertion that "all the money" goes to these fat cat "executives" were true, and I'm not buying it--- the only way they can take the money out of the economy would be to buy actual physical gold bullion coins and put it in a basement.

So, if these guys really were like Scrooge McDuck and literally had a basement full of gold coins then it would be out of the economy. But that is pretty much nobody.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#27
post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money going to the government to "fund programs" doesn't go into the economy either. There's a possibility it will go to salaries and things, but that's hardly a guarantee. The government doesn't create the economy, private sector growth does. When money goes to "private accounts of executives", and those accounts are in banks and investment funds, that money is going to be used to capitalize new growth (unless they'…

> Money going to the government to "fund programs" doesn't go into the economy either. It most certainly does. The government doesn't hold any significant amount of money in reserve. Every dollar they receive (and a lot they don't) gets invested in the economy in some way (salary, materials purchases, R&D, etc.) > When money goes to "private accounts of executives", and those accounts are in banks and investment fund…

"Every dollar they receive (and a lot they don't) gets invested in the economy in some way (salary, materials purchases, R&D, etc.)"

Two problems with that statement. First, you're only looking at one side of the equation. You're ignoring the cost and damage to the economy that government spending does. I don't just mean by crowding out other, more efficient solutions, but the literal taxation and inflation that government uses to get the money in the first place inhibits economic growth. Both actions reduce the "bottom line" for consumers and companies and thus reduce the funds they have available when deciding to make capital purchases- whether it is a house or a car or sending kids to college or building a plant to create more jobs. All of the money government takes prevents those things from happening.

The second is that you're ignoring that much of that "investment" is actually spent on activities that are themselves net-harmful to the economy. Such as the overzealous regulators that shut businesses down, the agencies that spend their time inhibiting efficient running of businesses, or even make it impossible to operate your plant safely because government regulations don't allow the use of the latest safety equipment (only what was on the market at the time the regulation was created) or FDA examiners that drive costs thru the roof, and prevent access to drugs for dying people because the drugs are "experimental" and might kill them in 20 years (though their disease will get them a lot sooner) etc. Much of the money government spends is on programs that make people less safe and more on topic, undermine economic growth with no real benefit other than providing good political jobs to hand out.

"This is a lovely dream with little evidence to support it."

The entire history of the USA supports it.

"The idea that rich people getting richer helps the economy is not founded on fact."

The error you're making here is that you think that letting people keep their money only helps the rich. IF you take all of the incomes of the bottom %50 of the populace and you compare it to the incomes of the tope %50 of the populace, there are a lot more people in the lower half and they make a lot more money. Not squandering that money benefits them a whole lot more than it does the rich.

Frankly, the economics are not really up for debate. They don't support your side. The slogans about "rich people getting rich" are just rationalizations for theft.

That theft, actually, hurts poor people more than it does rich people. Rich people are insulated, the poor are not.

Bush's original Tax cut proposed reducing taxes for poor people by %50, IIRC, and the reduction for the richest was around %2. After the democrats managed to "compromise" it, what got passed reduced taxes for the poorest by %20. Why weren't the democrats in favor of the large tax cut for the poor?

And even still, even though every way you measure it-- dollar terms or percentage terms-- these tax cuts helped the poor more than the rich, ever since they've been passed, democrats have been calling them "tax cuts for the rich".

Frankly, from an economics perspective, lower regulation, lower taxes, lower inflation, no matter how unevenly applied, helps the poor. It always does, it always will, and in fact it has to-- the primary way you get rich is by improving the lives of the poor.

I don't understand why democrats constantly support policies that hurt the poor, are constantly trying to raise their taxes (While always, of course, claiming to only want to tax the rich) but they do.

I'm not a republican, so, put down that assumption I've just studied economics. What the politicians tell you about economics is designed to serve their interests, not yours.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#28
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, they will take note of it as "run the government like a business", which tends to be how supply-side economists would prefer the government to be run anyway.

They want lower revenues for the government. I would hope that it's not the same philosophy for their businesses.

No, they want spending to be less than or equal to revenues. That's the only rational way to run a business.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#29
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unfortunately, they will take note of it as "run the government like a business", which tends to be how supply-side economists would prefer the government to be run anyway.

They want lower revenues for the government. I would hope that it's not the same philosophy for their businesses.

They also want a smaller scope for the government. So it's not like saying 'I want to run this business but bring in less money', it's more like saying 'I want to run a smaller business, so what departments can we do without'. Smaller business may actually make more profit (read: be more efficient) than the larger one.

I try not to claim a political preference left or right[1], but to prevent confusion I do feel they're trying to make this 'business' much smaller than it needs to be.

[1] My political preference is merely that politicans are like diapers. They need to be changed regularly, and for the same reason.

Re: Apple now holding more cash than USA

#30
post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They want lower revenues for the government. I would hope that it's not the same philosophy for their businesses.

No, they want spending to be less than or equal to revenues. That's the only rational way to run a business.

"That's the only rational way to run a business."

Actually, it's not - ask any business that's taken funding, borrowed to invest, or even run an overdraft as part of their low season. Spending less than or equal to revenues is one way to run a business, especially a small business that you only intend to grow incrementally (if at all). Borrowing to invest for faster growth is a very rational way to run a business in many situations (market opportunity, large personal vision etc).

Again, I'm just addressing the business analogy - here's my politics disclaimer http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2822770

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