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Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

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Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#191

Post by rualca »

askafriend wrote: post #183
jasondigitized wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Are they better with people than you are? Does that make you dumb as well? If you were “smart” you would have figured out how to work with your leadership team to optimize a solution for all parties. But you don’t know how to, and therefore from my perspective, could also be considered “dumb”.

Honestly some people are dumb and it’s as simple as that. No need to bend backwards to make excuses for them.

This debate isn't really about people being dumb inasmuch as it's about someone accusing every single person around him of being dumb.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#192

Post by RichardCA »

okareaman wrote: post #66

Ex-Navy & programmer here: It feels like I am pointing out the obvious, but FAANGs have big problems, way bigger than a startup, and I'm not referring to only the technology. They have big organizational problems, like managing an aircraft carrier. They need to hire the smartest people and pay them a lot of money to manage those problems. Not every problem is sexy and many people are needed in the engine room to keep…

I had a manager once who was ex-Navy (electronics specialist, not an officer). He approached management with a hard-nosed Type A mentality.

He definitely went after people who he saw as coasting, and in some cases that was undoubtedly justified. He got results but there was also a lot of churn. He also made the mistake of taking too much on himself because he saw that as easier than the hard work of understanding and motivating people. After a while the atmosphere fell into bad faith, cynicism, and lack of trust. After some span of time he was moved to a position that kept his rank but removed his reports. The churn got so bad that upper mgmt had to deal with it, and HR also got involved.

I think he's working at Amazon now.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#194

Post by snak »

SCdF wrote: post #39

> below-average IQ people. .. > Any advice is appreciated. Not shitting on your colleagues with this generation's phrenology would be a great start. More generally, it sounds like you are starting with the idea that you're better and smarter than everyone you work with and only you can see the problems, as opposed to everyone you work with being (by and large) decent and hard working people who are making the best of…

I don't necessarily agree with your point of view, but these two concepts were new and interesting to me. Posting their meanings for others that haven't heard of them either:

> Phrenology

Pseudoscience which involves the measurement of bumps on the skull to predict mental traits.

The study of the conformation of the skull as indicative of mental faculties and traits of character.

> Chesterton's fence

Principle that reforms should not be made until the reasoning behind the existing state of affairs is understood.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#195

Post by fridif »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #177
fridif wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While Google and Amazon might both suffer from a horrendous 10 year old code base all built in house, I can assure you that Google does not have high turnover lmao

Do you think people at Amazon are stupid then, if we can't get into a better company?

I got denied from Amazon twice, which actually turned out to be a blessing in disguise because I am now the lead dev and architect at a normal older company and I have complete freedom to deliver whatever my users ask for. I literally still can't believe how easy the development process is when you remove all of the BS at FAANG and worse, BigCorp.

Nobody is stupid if they can pass Amazon's interview earnestly. But it is possible to lack motivation and professionalism. That's what I believe Amazon's SWE's are facing.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#196

Post by dcolkitt »

xeromal wrote: post #89
tZqGafFdSbj5w34 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I seem to be getting a lot of heat for this comment - fair enough, but I will expand on that. Before joining this company, I hired and managed teams across various startups. I don't think I would be speaking out of turn to say in every company we looked for aptitude and intelligence. I don't know what my previous or current colleagues literal IQs are, but you know a highly intelligent person when you meet and work wi…

IQ is kind of a weird metric to measure people by. Do they get their shit done?

IQ is literally the strongest predictor of job performance across every category. Even stronger than years of experience in the job. This result has been replicated by industrial psychology resource again and again over decades.

I get that it’s kinda rude to bluntly talk about IQ, but without a doubt intelligent colleagues make for a more effective work environment.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#197

Post by Arainach »

rejectedandsad wrote: post #175
Arainach wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't work at Amazon and never have, so take my opinions with a grain of salt. I have worked at multiple other "FAANG"-caliber organizations, so add a few more grains. Let's start with the obvious: "FAANG" was a term coined by financial types, not technical types, based on stock valuations rather than any particular technical merits. Exactly what companies are in it are controversial - Microsoft has the pedigree an…

Basically, all of this seems to wind down into the fact that Amazon engineers are lesser and less worthy than everyone else and that even Amazon engineers know about this. Why the hell should I even continue if that's the case? I make a pittance and everyone in society thinks of me as a untermensch.

I intentionally didn't say anything about the engineers/ICs at Amazon. Amazon does some things incredibly well, and their culture and practices have clearly delivered some impressive results. It clearly has a number of good employees. I have friends as well as former and current colleagues who previously worked there. They're good people.

My comments were centered on the company's management structure, performance incentives, and business model.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#198

Post by shostack »

tZqGafFdSbj5w34 wrote: post #78
laurieg wrote: post #14

"staffed with below-average IQ people" I'm not sure why your co-workers' IQ is your concern. To come out of the gate with a comment like this sounds like you have a strong disdain for them. Part of your reason for joining the company was the paycheck. I assume the checks aren't bouncing. My advice is the same advice I would give to many people: Learn from your coworkers. Understand the problems that the team and the…

I seem to be getting a lot of heat for this comment - fair enough, but I will expand on that. Before joining this company, I hired and managed teams across various startups. I don't think I would be speaking out of turn to say in every company we looked for aptitude and intelligence. I don't know what my previous or current colleagues literal IQs are, but you know a highly intelligent person when you meet and work wi…

What about EQ aka emotional intelligence? Your comment betrays a very biased view. Is it at all possible these people are very good at areas you yourself may be considered "low IQ?"

And how are they to work with otherwise? I've worked with many "high IQ" people who were awful colleagues because they had superiority complexes, had no concept of collaboration, were crap communicators, especially for audiences not familiar with their domains, etc.

Meanwhile I've worked with others who may not be traditionally smart, be deeply technical, etc. But they got people. And people liked talking and working with them. And that led to progress, alignment, and less stress.

I know who I'd prefer to work with any day of the week.

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#199

Post by [deleted] »

RichardCA wrote: post #192
okareaman wrote: post #66

Ex-Navy & programmer here: It feels like I am pointing out the obvious, but FAANGs have big problems, way bigger than a startup, and I'm not referring to only the technology. They have big organizational problems, like managing an aircraft carrier. They need to hire the smartest people and pay them a lot of money to manage those problems. Not every problem is sexy and many people are needed in the engine room to keep…

I had a manager once who was ex-Navy (electronics specialist, not an officer). He approached management with a hard-nosed Type A mentality. He definitely went after people who he saw as coasting, and in some cases that was undoubtedly justified. He got results but there was also a lot of churn. He also made the mistake of taking too much on himself because he saw that as easier than the hard work of understanding and…

[deleted]

Re: Ask HN: I joined a FAANG and it is awful

#200

Post by mattm »

Ancalagon wrote: post #155
awsthro00945 wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>These folks have passed the same bar the OP has. The notion that any type of consistent "bar" exists for hiring at FAANGs is a myth. These companies are far too large to consistently apply hiring standards. Some teams intentionally have different standards, some teams un intentionally (due to the hiring managers or interviewers just not being on the same page) have different standards, even within their specific tea…

Wow, requiring an interview to move around in the same company just sounds like the epitome of pigeonholing.

At the size of these companies, it's more like several companies that happen to be under the same roof.
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