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Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

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Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#281

Post by econgeeker »

tomlin wrote: post #242
iamelgringo wrote: post #209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all my years working in health care as an ER and trauma nurse, I learned one thing: Do the right thing for the patient. If the doctor is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If the hospital is doing it wrong... do the right thing for the patient. If a police officer is doing the wrong thing... do the right thing for the patient. The ultimate policy is... Do the right thing for the patient. AirBnb.…

I think all of this crossed their minds. Honestly, I don't think Airbnb wants to leave this person hanging. If they pay for this incident, they are possibly opening the door for the kinds of schemes people pull on insurance. You know, the whole "rob my place and I'll collect the insurance" schemes. If Airbnb pays for this incident, they effectively become an insurance company. Maybe what they should do is offer some…

AirBnB paying for one incident does not create any obligation on them to pay for other incidents. That's nonsense.

Apple replaced a friends phone that they abused and then made up a story about. Apple did this because Apple wanted to take care of their customer. Doesn't mean Apple is obligated to replace every phone, even when it is abused. Apple's only obligated to the terms of the warranty it promises. Apple promises little, but delivers a lot.

These are the incidents that test the true nature of a company. AirBnB is not coming off very well so far, and there is no negative ramification to doing the right thing-- except for the direct costs of doing the right thing.

If AirBnB thinks leaving their customer hanging is worth saving the money it would cost to "make things right" (Whatever that means) it is their right.

But lets not hide behind the spurious notion that the world operates like school.

Just because you give some gum to your friend doesn't mean you're obligated to give it to the whole class.

If it did, then I'd have the right to go to a party at the playboy mansion! Clearly other people were invited.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#282

Post by nmcfarl »

danilocampos wrote: post #83
jrockway wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing well is extremely hard. It could be that the "second co-founder" is bad at writing rather than oblivious or indifferent. He did want to meet her in person, perhaps to lend assistance, after all. If he was oblivious, this is probably not the action he would have taken.

> Writing well is extremely hard. Please . Writing like Michael Chabon or Aaron Sorkin is hard. Having some basic compassion in how you interact with people is not. This email didn't need to win any awards — it just needed to have some minimum level of sensitivity. As I said in a cousin: "he 'would enjoy meeting' me" I don't think she really gives a damn in her current state what this guy would "enjoy" doing, is real…

I completely agree with your last sentence.

However, I at least, find writing about emotional matters to be extremely difficult. When I sit down with a goal of saying something nice, to show some compassion, to show what I'm actually feeling - what I usually end up doing is twisting the knife.

So in general I write less, and see the people face to face ASAP. Any other way is just harder for us both.

I could have easily made this mistake.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#283

Post by krschultz »

jonhohle wrote: post #266
a3camero wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt it is a solved problem or AirBNB would be using it. Imagine what the negotiations would be like. They need insurance for: -An open-ended number of people worldwide (constantly changing) -Any sort of property from shitty apartments all the way to fancy houses (no estimate of value possible, requires appraisers) -Damage/theft caused by people with unverified identities (all they have is CC, stolen?) -Any and al…

Imagine negotiating insurance for a mobile business where people are flung around 30+ feet in the air with no safety harness, others stick their heads in the mouths of lions or are "sat" on by elephants, and still others stick flaming swords into their throats. Meanwhile, children are riding on devices assembled by people who may not have a high school diploma (at least that's the impression I get). These businesses…

That's not exactly the point. An insurance policy for a high risk activity - let's say skydiving - is very well definited. There are statistics on accident rates. There is a pretty defined payout when someone dies. The problem is not the risk level, it's the undefined nature of the problem.

AirBnB doesn't know the value of the property they are renting. They don't have a long enough history to figure out what these kind of things could cost. What if I rent out a mansion, are they as liable there as in this case? Does AirBnB limit their pay out? These are questions they will have to come through at some point.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#284

Post by ig1 »

almightygod wrote: post #249
ig1 wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

HN could easily automatically use the title of the submitted article, it doesn't for the purpose of allowing more relevant titles to be written for the HN audience. The submitted title accurately portrayed the story as linked to without significant editorializing. There was a clear conflict of interest in YC modifying the title to be one more favourable to one of their portfolio companies. This is exactly the kind of…

YC does not hide the fact that HN is a tool for their needs. They have made no claims to be an unbiased news source so we can't really hold them to that standard.

YC have stated they only edit titles for the good of the site and not for the good of YC. If they wish to adopt that policy they're free to do so and make a statement to that effect.

However I imagine they don't do so due to the obviously loss in good will such a position would cause.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#285

Post by krschultz »

jsavimbi wrote: post #221
krschultz wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That doesn't really make any sense. If it was a hoax, AirBnB would have come out and said that in their TC post. Instead they came out and said effectively 'yes, this happened, we're fixing it'. The victim is now disagreeing with AirBnB's assertion that they are fixing it. Obviously AirBnB has confirmed the damage to her house. As have the police. So you are basically arguing that she trashed her own house and commit…

> Obviously AirBnB has confirmed the damage to her house. As have the police. Sorry, but I've seen no proof of either and I doubt that you have. Even if AirBnB has seen the damage as reported by the host and the SFPD have a person in custody, what we have is the alleged destruction of property and alleged identity theft. Alleged, not proven. > You know nothing about her. Exactly, but what I do know is that there's a…

What do you mean it's not something done in the real world? What is VRBO.com (vacation rental by owner). I've taken a half dozen vacations where I rented someone elses house - long before AirBnB. There have been vacation houses in ski towns for decades, on the shore for literally hundreds of years. The only twist AirBnB provides is that it competes with regular hotels - not just vacation homes. And I know more than one vacation home owner who has a similar story to the one told here. People trash vacation homes. People trash normal rental apartments. It happens all of the time.

The apartment I live in now had $15,000 in damage done by the previous tenant when he was evicted for not paying rent. He took a sledgehammer to the toilets and walls. He spray painted the ceiling and burned the curtains. My friend's vacation house at Disney World had all of the furniture stolen by someone renting it. This stuff happens all the time.

The only thing I'm shocked by is that this is the FIRST incident on AirBnB that we've heard of. They should have had a plan to deal with it. I'm not exactly deep in the rental scene and I have two stories to tell of this happening from people I personally know. This stuff must happen every week.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#286

Post by alexg0 »

farrel wrote: post #133
muhfuhkuh wrote: post #71

It's a sad state of affairs, to be sure. But the answers are simple, although it's going to be a real pain for AirBnB's "frictionless" transaction model. 1) You MUST put down a CREDIT CARD. Not a bank card, not a debit card, not a prepaid card. No plasticky no rentee. A major credit card to make a transaction. No bitcoin, no cash, no BS. Airbnb then puts a hold equal to transaction cost + 20% for the duration of the…

What is the insurance premium on: 1) A dedicated holiday apartment with little valuables and suitable furnishings 2) My primary residence full of my own furniture, valuables and sentimental items Who is going to do that appraisal? AirBnB?

That's actually fairly easy. Host should declare coverage limits. Does not make sense to artificially lower the limits, since insurance will not pay for what's not declared. Thinking somewhat similar to insurance that FedEx and UPS are happy to sell.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#287

Post by lambda »

rdouble wrote: post #267

This story is beginning to smell fishy. I was burglarized in a similar, but not as extreme manner. My landlord was involved immediately. Why is there no mention of the property owner in any of these stories? In my case, the "investigation" was over in about 1.25 days. There's not much the police can do. SFPD would not spend 2 months investigating a burglary in an illegal sublet. Furthermore, there are no photos of th…

Why not mention the landlord? Maybe because it's not particularly relevant? I mean, what would she say about the landlord? "I told the landlord, and he commiserated with me, and helped me change the locks." And heck, she already mentioned changing the locks.

As far as the investigation, Airbnb has claimed that a suspect has been apprehended, but apparently neither the SFPD nor Airbnb have contacted her with any further details. She's not necessarily blaming the SFPD for not having caught the suspect; but she's arguing that the spin that Airbnb has put on this story is untrue, that everything has not been resolved, and they have not been as helpful as they claim.

And why would someone who had just been victimized by someone anonymous they connected with on the internet want to publish a whole bunch of personal details all over the internet? Internet vigilantism is not some silver bullet; publishing more information may lead her to be more vulnerable, not less. Her intent is not to get "the internet" to help catch the thieves; her intent is to warn people about the risks of using Airbnb's service, and that Airbnb will basically do nothing to mitigate those risks.

And it's not like this story is completely made up. Brian Chesky wouldn't have written a response confirming many of the details and contesting none of them if the story were untrue. All he did was try to put a positive spin on it, which this second post demonstrates is just spin, with no real content.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#289

Post by learc83 »

rmc wrote: post #170
learc83 wrote: post #140

My first thought is that you'd might actually have a higher chance of having someone trash your house if you leave it unoccupied for week vs. letting someone rent it on Airbnb.

If you leave it unoccupied for a week and it gets trashed you can probably claim from your insurance company. If you rent it out to a randomer online, the insurance company probably won't cover any damages.

True, didn't think of that.

Re: Airbnb Nightmare: No End In Sight

#290

Post by rdouble »

lambda wrote: post #287
rdouble wrote: post #267

This story is beginning to smell fishy. I was burglarized in a similar, but not as extreme manner. My landlord was involved immediately. Why is there no mention of the property owner in any of these stories? In my case, the "investigation" was over in about 1.25 days. There's not much the police can do. SFPD would not spend 2 months investigating a burglary in an illegal sublet. Furthermore, there are no photos of th…

Why not mention the landlord? Maybe because it's not particularly relevant? I mean, what would she say about the landlord? "I told the landlord, and he commiserated with me, and helped me change the locks." And heck, she already mentioned changing the locks. As far as the investigation, Airbnb has claimed that a suspect has been apprehended, but apparently neither the SFPD nor Airbnb have contacted her with any furth…

This is a 37 year old woman who lived in NYC for 6 years and then spent two year traveling to places like Brazil and Bogota, Columbia. At this point she knows that people suck and shit happens. She definitely does not have PTSD from this experience. I take back any thing that might have suggested I agreed with the conspiracy theorists. This woman is BROKE and she's trying to spin this hard to get some sort of payout from AirBNB.
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