Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#121

Post by mateuszf » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #95

rhn_mk1 wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly That's a false dichotomy. There are competitors offering various levels of maturity and functionality. Jolla exists, PinePhone, Xiaomi, Librem 5, dumb phones, POTS landline, no phone... And yes, Linux on the desktop is also a valid choice . It most likely won't track you either.

There's a reason why that's 98%+ of the market. There is a dichotomy between the two camps in the smartphone market, everyone else is fringe. On the fringe, good luck using banking apps, transit apps, vehicle rental apps, or other apps increasingly necessary and useful. I don't think you know what you are talking about when you mentioned Xiaomi as an option. That would be among the dumbest options you could possibly…

> On the fringe, good luck using banking apps

Tried that yesterday on CalyxOs with anonymous MicroG account and my banking app works fine. No problem with contactless nfc payments.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#122

Post by josteink » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

lettergram wrote: post #18

I’ve been working on my pinephone. But it’s really underpowered imo. I’m considering a Librem 5. Which has more cpu power and battery. The appeal to me is really getting off any major tech platform. Further, you can disconnect the components via switches — iE unplug the microphone. That being said, I can’t even use Signal on them without some major configurations. https://forum.pine64.org/showthread.php?tid=13728 I h…

> That being said, I can’t even use Signal on them without some major configurations.

Sadly bridging Signal into a matrix home-server and just using a matrix-client from the PinePhone/Librem is probably the simplest option.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#123

Post by thealistra » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:17 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #91

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

I'm reasonably confident that Google listens to every conversation I have within earshot of my phone. It isn't uncommon to find things in my news feed that are related to things I have no interest in but a friend or coworker had just mentioned to me in passing.

At work you have the same IP. Your coworker may have googled what he was taking about. This is a much easier explaination than a constant mic monitoring for arbitrary phrases

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#124

Post by NationalPark » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #91

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

I'm reasonably confident that Google listens to every conversation I have within earshot of my phone. It isn't uncommon to find things in my news feed that are related to things I have no interest in but a friend or coworker had just mentioned to me in passing.

The conspiracy that never dies. I think it's so sticky because people feel very uncomfortable when they realize how much Google knows about you without having to listen.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#125

Post by cassianoleal » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=28118619

macOS does _something_ related to this system. It's unclear what though.

I agree with how impressive the M1 is. I've replaced my 16" fully specced i9 with a 13" M1 Air. The only thing I sometimes miss is the larger screen but not by much.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#126

Post by laurentlbm » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:18 PM UTC

guerrilla wrote: post #109

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm reasonably confident that Google listens to every conversation I have within earshot of my phone. It isn't uncommon to find things in my news feed that are related to things I have no interest in but a friend or coworker had just mentioned to me in passing.

What do you say about the people who have tested this and found nothing?

Maybe Google heard them say that they were going to test!

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#127

Post by misiti3780 » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #91

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

I'm reasonably confident that Google listens to every conversation I have within earshot of my phone. It isn't uncommon to find things in my news feed that are related to things I have no interest in but a friend or coworker had just mentioned to me in passing.

I doubt they are listening - What is more likely is Google can use your lat/lng and knows that you and your co-worker work near each other, etc and is making recommendations based of proximity.

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#128

Post by djrogers » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:19 PM UTC

ByteWelder wrote: post #59

donohoe wrote: post #29

This seems like an over-reaction. I'm highly opposed to Apple's CSAM move but they are still much better and transparent than Google, Amazon, and most other services. Many of these already do something like this but they just don't actively tell you or document it. Also, and please correct me if I am mistaken, Apple's CSAM is limited to iCloud for Photos. It does not just work against your local photos. CSAM Detectio…

For me, it was well thought-out. Apple betrayed my trust as a consumer and the response in the past week was plain gaslighting. I thought about it for a couple of days and then decided that I don't want to support a company like that anymore. (edit)I was planning to buy a new MBP/iPhone/Watch in Q4, so this made it easier to decide on those purchases earlier.(/edit) It's correct that the CSAM scanning is currently on…

> The backdoor might be inactive for now, but there would still be a backdoor on my phone

The key (from Apple's POV) is that this is done on your device, so the model can be audited, and users will know if it changes or is suddenly enabled where it wasn't before. Apple has documented the entire threat model and their design decisions realted to each threat vector.

It's worth reading the document, as it becomes pretty clear that this is a step towards enabling E2E for iCloud Photos.

The alternative to what Apple did is cloud-based scanning, which is less transparent, permanently disallows E2EE, and is more vulnerable to being changed by national decree. If CSAM scanning is going to (or is already) mandatory, I vastly prefer Apple's method here.

[1] https://www.apple.com/child-safety/pdf/Security_Threat_Model...

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#129

Post by salzig » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

AnIdiotOnTheNet wrote: post #91

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

I'm reasonably confident that Google listens to every conversation I have within earshot of my phone. It isn't uncommon to find things in my news feed that are related to things I have no interest in but a friend or coworker had just mentioned to me in passing.

you don't need to listen at every conversation. Your friend was tagged with those topics, and there is a connection to you. It's simple enough to "copy" those topics over to you, cause you're maybe also intrested. :)

Re: Ask HN: What Apple alternatives are you switching to?

#130

Post by jrockway » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:20 PM UTC

scoopertrooper wrote: post #71

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #26

To be honest... None. It's a choice. You might wholly disagree, but recent events aren't enough to get me to switch yet, because I think the competition has too many tradeoffs. I can get my photos scanned against a CSAM database... or I can have Google tracking my location constantly regardless of what they say (as they've been proven to be misleading in the past)... or I can use a Linux phone and say goodbye to batt…

Exactly, I think people are just getting a little too worked up over this whole thing. Apple computes a hash of each image you upload to iCloud then check it against a list of CP hashes. Of all the things in the world to get worked up over, this is ridiculous. I get it, the mechanism they're using has apparent flaws, and maybe some whacko could somehow get access to your phone and start uploading things that trick th…

Apple's using my electricity and my silicon to call the cops on me. We have no idea what hashes they're checking images against; we can't see the raw data, and we can't see the hashes, and we can't see what they're sending to their servers.

There is no technical reason why this needs to exist. If they want to scan iCloud photos for something, they can do that on their servers. iCloud is not end-to-end encrypted. Law enforcement can do whatever they want with the data you send there. Since they chose the client-side route, they have to be up to something, and it all smells very fishy. Today, they say it's for CSAM. Tomorrow, it will be for any discontent against whatever government wants to oppress its people this week -- and as time goes forward, that is not just third-world countries where you don't live, it could be your own.

Do you really want to explain to the police at your door at 3:30 in the morning why you read a website called Hacker News? This is the first step towards that reality.

Imagine I wrote a program that contained the phone numbers of people I don't like. The database is encrypted, and the only way to see if you're on that list is to install the app on your phone. The app does two things -- nothing if you're not on my list, or it sends me your location (at your expense!) if you are. Would you install that app? Absolutely not, that would be crazy. But that is basically what is bundled into iOS now.

I really like my iPhone and iPad Pro. I like how Apple handles privacy in general. But I can't accept this. It's a step too far. You don't have to draw the line there, but I draw the line there.