Hash collision in Apple NeuralHash model

Post by mlindner » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:11 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #246

Grustaf wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why would they extend the CSAM scanner? It would be much simpler to just use all the OCR and image classification functions they have already deployed. CSAM scanning is only useful for areas where Apple really doesn't want to even look at the actual material until they are extremely certain that it's a match. If they want to detect anti-government propaganda or something, there would be no such concerns, they would j…

>> useful for areas where Apple really doesn't want to even look at the actual material Correct. It has plausible deniability built in. Apple is unable to verify that the images the government are looking for are actually CSAM. They could be political. They could be protest images. They could be Winnie the Pooh. Apple can plead ignorance as it blindly scans for whatever the requesting government asks it to scan for.…

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:12 PM UTC

mannerheim wrote: post #184

shapefrog wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have seen it suggested that everyone should flood the system with flagged images to overwhelm it in protest to this move by apple. Sounds pretty stupid to me to fill your phone with kiddie porn in protest, but you do you internet people.

You don't need to do that, just use images that collide with the hashes.

Post by kergonath » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

Ensorceled wrote: post #130

sneak wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All criminal accusations, including true ones , should be treated as false until the accused is proven guilty. This is a fundamental tenet of human rights in western, small-l liberal free societies. The fact that this is controversial these days is literally insane to me. The consequences of throwing this fundamental system out the window is that you get the sort of nonsense that happened with Assange, where he was l…

> All criminal accusations, including true ones, should be treated as false until the accused is proven guilty. No, they need to be treated as unproven, a very critical difference. Just to be clear, witness testimony, including testimony FROM THE VICTIM, is evidence of the crime. Just for some reason, in rape cases, we go all wonky with this principle.

Post by jodrellblank » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:14 PM UTC

ethbr0 wrote: post #248

sandworm101 wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> there is no law who requires them to "scan" on device. There is. Apple must comply with warrant requests. If they have a system for scanning files on customer devices they must, if presented with a warrant, allow police access to that system. We can quibble about jurisdictions and constitutional protections, but if the FBI shows up with a federal warrant demanding that Apple remotely scan Sandworm101's phone for a…

That's an incomplete statement. Currently, they must comply with warranty requests by scanning if they have the ability to scan . If they have no such ability (say, because they designed their phones from a privacy-first perspective), the law makes no requirement that they create such a capability. And that's what pisses people off about this.

Post by Grustaf » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:16 PM UTC

kps wrote: post #278

Grustaf wrote: post #266

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except that Apple will review the photos once you've matched 30 of them, so it's still not possible for the government to misuse it.

In China, iCloud is run by the government.