Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009) • Hacker News Board

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#151

Post by lmm » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:29 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #102

harry8 wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without commenting on the policy I think you're missing the maths. I can earn $x here or $(x - y) to be in the uk. In the UK I get healthcare on the NHS. I move. I quit / am fired / co goes (creatively?) broke. And I keep the healthcare on the NHS and have time to start a family before deportation etc. Think about large values of y or indeed kickbacks. Does the firm really want /me/? Or do they just want cash which t…

> queue jumping There is no queue. I mean that: there is no requirement for cases to be processed in any kind of order, if at all, and nor is there a quota (except in the minds of Home Office managers). > I get an end run around the immigration system to get healthcare Hardly anyone does this, or at least there's no evidence of this. If you have money which you wish to trade for healthcare, there are usually better w…

> There is no queue.

> I mean that: there is no requirement for cases to be processed in any kind of order, if at all, and nor is there a quota (except in the minds of Home Office managers).

That's an if-I-close-my-eyes-the-room-will-be-empty way of looking at it. There's a backlog of cases waiting to be processed and a finite processing capacity, so adding more applications is necessarily going to, on average, delay existing (legitimate) applications.

> Hardly anyone does this, or at least there's no evidence of this. If you have money which you wish to trade for healthcare, there are usually better ways than bribing a firm to give you a fake job in the UK?

If there's a loophole that lets someone get NHS healthcare for significantly less than the market price of equivalent healthcare, it seems absurd on its face to imagine that no-one in the world would want to exploit it. Most people are honourable, but there are enough desperate people, and frankly if were that easy then I wouldn't blame them for taking advantage of the system.

> See Afghanistan.

> It was, allegedly, important enough to invade and spend billions on, as well as a number of Westerner lives

Pure whataboutism.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#152

Post by harry8 » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:31 PM UTC

pjc50 wrote: post #116

harry8 wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> There is no queue. Any country that has a number of people who would like to immigrate of whom it will not accept all and will chose who to reject has a queue. How that queue is implemented, orderly, disorderly, corruptly, unjustly, ridiculously, incompetently or at various times all of the above. Some get in, some don't, it's a queue. It may not be a fantasy of an orderly queue where everyone is served in order in…

> priority queue if you must with priority being given by a random number generator tempered with both nonsense You cannot sensibly call this a "queue". No programmer would accept "random order" when they expected "in order". Moreover, decisions are independent . The number of people already accepted is not a factor in individual immigration decisions! Someone else getting accepted cannot affect the outcome of your o…

Obviously the priority is /meant/ to be sensibly arrived at. The rest was commentary on how sensible it is likely to actually be in practice, with a nod to your assertions about it which seem at least plausible. I simply don't believe decisions are entirely independent. I strongly doubt the public servants making those decisions have it in the power to increase the rate of immigration tenfold based on individuals meeting criteria without political support. The process is inherently a rate limiting thing.

>Why? Who is "you" here?

"You" is anyone putting themselves in the shoes of coming up with an immigration policy. Spare a thought for any decent human being who actually has to get their hands properly dirty and do it. I may not be a decent human because I think I would run from that opportunity without hesitation. I doubt I have the psychological strength to try for a least worse policy that will bring about misery. There is no stroke of my pen where I wouldn't be seeing millions of people dying any one of whom I could have saved with a different stroke. I'm not sure I can live with that. But I can't really absolve myself of the responsibility for what happens as a voting eligible person in a democracy. On that basis I have to at least consider what current policies are and competing ones that might be somehow a little less horrific. They will all be horrific on a personal level in people's lives. A large number of people.

There are 700 million people on this planet who do not have access to safe drinking water. One would think all of them would happily relocate to any wealthy country where their children have a better chance of a reasonable future. The number who would want to relocate to the UK is probably considerably north of that number as you don't have to be on the lowest rung on the ladder of this planet to see the wealth of the UK and think that's worth moving to. There are people with clean drinking water who are utterly desperate. Have any immigration policy at all - imagine your decree is law and implemented with resources and vigor. If the one decided on involves a scale of migration measured in hundreds of millions in a year societal collapse seems very likely. If one accepts that then one embraces the necessity of rejecting worthy people with heartbreaking stories. By the million.

Who to reject? How many to reject? There is no good answer in my opinion. What is your estimate of the number of people on the planet who will die if you reject them? Know they are being rejected. A tiny fraction of utterly desperate people on this planet will be accepted as immigrants in all the rich countries combined.

I say /nothing/ about Afghanistan and refugees. I say literally nothing because I don't know about it. I point out if the immigration policy arrived at is to take everyone from Afghanistan who wants to move and that policy works (hurrah!) and has manageable costs (again hurrah! and again I have no clue), it's not the end of it. There are literally hundreds of millions more people in dire straits for whom moving their family to any rich country would save them. It's f&^king horrible. Every bit as horrible as scenes being televised. This is not an argument I'm making for rejecting any refugees from any country including Afghanistan. As soon as anyone with any kind of heart starts looking at a rich countries immigration policy and its results it is heartbreaking and horrible with no good answers, only ones you hate and loathe slightly less than others. Again this is not an excuse for being as evil as possible or eschewing all compassion or anything of the sort.

"No more horrific than necessary" is a reasonable goal because immigration policy, any policy, whatever it is, will be horrific. It sucks.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#153

Post by HappySweeney » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:36 PM UTC

b112 wrote: post #147

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Her professor counseled her against reporting. They needed the contact to get PhD students positions and recommendations. Reporting it online meant throwing up obstacles to herself for holding other academic positions. A PhD student is hostage against the system.

Her professor counceled her to let him trap others in the same situation?!? Fine professor. Sounds like she should wait until after she gets her phd, then scream. And, while leveling accusations at the professor too. He's as guilty as they are.

Were I in this situation, I would be quite sure the professor is receiving kickbacks.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#154

Post by gruez » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #138

cookieswumchorr wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

she had to stay, ok. but why keep working? Jobs can be scarce on an island but maybe you can find something that pays more than zero. Or work remote. Or just take vacation if you have some reserve

The recommendation, remember? The research? She was a PhD student.

Sounds like it's more of a problem with phd students than with Falkland islands.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#155

Post by randomopining » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:39 PM UTC

phillc73 wrote: post #11

ceilingcorner wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, Croatia is already turning into a country-sized tourist trap. It is really a shame considering how beautiful the area is.

There are still places on the Croatian Adriatic which aren’t over run with tourists. Of course the popular areas are extremely crowded. There are still other beautiful islands which are not so busy. I’m writing this from a small 20 tent only campsite on a Croatian island. Access is only by ferry. Facilities are limited (no large supermarkets for example). It’s our third summer here and while there have been some chan…

Wifi or 3/4g?

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#156

Post by MichaelZuo » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:41 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #98

ben_w wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like double-counting to me: > pay all my healthcare contributions for a year up front Is fine by itself , at least assuming you then get a discount on the PAYE taxes that you’re essentially pre-paying here. > If I lose my job I have a few weeks to find a new employer (who will have to be willing to pay for a visa transfer) or I have to leave the country. Paying to transfer the visa seems a bit strange to me…

> Paying to transfer the visa seems a bit strange to me There's a bureaucracy to support, so fees for everything they do.

Yes, imagine if the bureaucracy lost the visa paperwork and it was ‘free’. Paying for services rendered as described is certainly the standard expectation.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#157

Post by randomopining » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

higeorge13 wrote: post #28

sbacic wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As another Croatian, I have mixed feelings about this. On one hand, I'd like other people to experience the breathtaking beauty of my country. On the other hand, considering all the negative externalities and the rampant devastation that comes with our brand of tourism I'm not sure I want any more tourists coming. I especially don't want tourists buying holiday homes here.

I think the whole Med has become like this. Travel is so mainstream nowadays (at least before covid), same with people buying properties in foreign countries.

Yeah I think internet + Airbnb really opened some spots up. Like in the 90s, how did you find new spots? Mostly word of mouth on the ground I would assume. Less/no remote workers constantly traveling and sharing their opinions, etc.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#158

Post by Kihashi » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:42 PM UTC

morpheos137 wrote: post #130

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #120

Don't go. My young friend went on contract for a year, doing fishery research. After a few months they said "We aren't going to pay you any more. You can't leave because the boat won't come back until {whenever}. And if you say anything, we won't give you the recommendation you need as a young researcher doing a PhD." She had to stay for months working for nothing. It's slavery, and they know it, and that's how it wo…

she went on a contract. Why did she expect a raise?

GP mis-wrote it a bit- "We aren't going to pay you [anymore]". Meaning that they stopped paying her.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#159

Post by BurningFrog » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:44 PM UTC

JoeAltmaier wrote: post #120

Don't go. My young friend went on contract for a year, doing fishery research. After a few months they said "We aren't going to pay you any more. You can't leave because the boat won't come back until {whenever}. And if you say anything, we won't give you the recommendation you need as a young researcher doing a PhD." She had to stay for months working for nothing. It's slavery, and they know it, and that's how it wo…

This says more about conditions for PhD students than about the Falklands.

Re: Why do so many people move to the Falkland Islands? (2009)

#160

Post by Gupie » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 1:46 PM UTC

acjohnson55 wrote: post #141

hef19898 wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A British claim to Calais even has some historical precedent, doesn't it?

It was the last British territory in France, holding out until 1558. https://tudorhistory.org/glossaries/c/calais.html

There are the Channel Islands, but perhaps you could claim that the Channel Islands were the ones to occupy England and not vice versa since they were part of Normandy!