A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way • Hacker News Board

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#371

Post by manwe150 » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 2:33 AM UTC

mmcdermott wrote: post #357

scotty79 wrote: post #339

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even proven side effect. Just something that might be theorized to be the effect of the vaccine. It's really haunting that exactly the same FUD that tanked safe and efficient Lyme vaccine hinders covid vaccines adoption. And people wonder why companies that make covid vaccine wouldn't budge on being exempt from litigation on the basis of percieved side effects.

The difficulty with that exemption is that either a good or a bad actor would ask for it. A good actor to avoid being the target of frivolous suits and a bad actor to have cover for their actions. Because a good or bad actor would behave the same in this respect, people bring their own conceptions to the table and see what they expect to see (in either direction).

I think it is presented that way by some, but in reality, the existence of the exemption and VAERS may also help with monitoring both actors more closely, by reducing the perceived stakes and costs of tracking side-effects. Thus the exemption could help catch and punish bad actors faster, and protect good actors.

Legally speaking, I expect the exemption says something about not lying to the FDA in the fine print, so true bad actors would not be able to hide behind the exemption either.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#372

Post by alexpw » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 3:11 AM UTC

dukeofdoom wrote: post #326

markenqualitaet wrote: post #283

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you mean the vaccine. "Long term effects" here doesn't mean what you think it means.... In the past, long term side effects were still occuring with weeks or few month after the shot. However, the statistical signal may be delayed for years or decades to manifest. It's very hard to think of a way how anything could cause side effect years down the line. Vaccines do not contain beryllium or asbestos. The mRNA…

Some people are worried, just you never get here from them because they are either censored or drowned out by the corporate press. Here's a doctor, you don't usually get to hear from raising concerns you don't seem think to exit. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tUE5EBPt-lU&t=1128s

Dr. Ryan Cole, a pathologist, appears to make serious claims related to covid vaccines without supporting evidence. Searching his name reveals he's being given a voice by some of the right-wing media, but if there was substance to what he had to say, other doctors, researchers, scientists, etc, would eagerly jump to verify and act on it.

https://www.factcheck.org/2021/04/scicheck-idaho-doctor-make...

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#373

Post by IPTN » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 6:10 AM UTC

irq-1 wrote: post #345

scotty79 wrote: post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If the product causes provable harm then company should be prosecuted criminally by the state to determine if the testing done was sufficeint and there was no faul play. But letting random people sue manufacturer because they have some symptoms at later point in time than the time they took the vaccine is just recipie for what already happened on case of Lyme vaccine. Everybody looses except for lawyers and people lo…

You're suggesting a fundamental change to the legal system in the US. The idea that we would depend on the Government pursuing criminal charges... that's scary to me. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tort

Criminal charges in the US are pursued by the Government. The idea of private citizens deciding whether to press charges is widely misunderstood; District/US Attorneys can take a victim's wishes into consideration when deciding to charge a defendant (it may be difficult to win a case when the primary/only witness is uncooperative or conversely even if someone has been the victim of a crime the DA may not pursue a case because they feel they are unlikely to get a conviction) but the decision entirely lies with the Government.

Now, as you linked. Civil Tort's are entirely within the realm of private "citizens" (companies count as people too) to bring forth on their own.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Criminal_charge

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#374

Post by ganafagol » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 6:43 AM UTC

sonicggg wrote: post #355

abakker wrote: post #342

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I grew up in CT. Had it 4 times, only got the bullseye once. It is no joke, and as you get older it seems to suck more and more. Last time I had numbness in my face as the only symptom, but...thrice bitten, fully paranoid, and I was treated pretty fast. One thing which is important with a vaccine is that when I was a kid (early 90s) the rate of ticks carrying lyme was in the 10% range or less, while now it is >50%. A…

How do you manage to get it so often? I live in an area that is endemic to Lyme, but it's something that can easily be avoided (much easier than Covid). But I do see reckless behaviour all the time as well, so maybe it is not that surprising.

If you consider enjoying nature as "reckless behavior" then the shared understanding needed as a basis for a conversation may be missing. Lying in the grass looking at sky and stars, running through the forest with your dog, go pick mushrooms. That's very natural behaviour, not "reckless". Of course you can sit indoors all day, but I prefer a vaccine and enjoy nature instead.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#375

Post by ganafagol » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

loceng wrote: post #361

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

Why don't they understand the pathway for the side effect and figure out a diagnostic test for it so people who're hesitant/worried (or everyone does it to protect everyone from the side effect) so they can be screened out from getting the vaccine then?

Why don't they just solve world peace and faster-than-light travel?

Because these things are hard. Lacking the ultimate solution, a small step is better than nothing.

Or do you only walk because cars and trains are too slow to get you to the next solar system so why bother ...?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#376

Post by ganafagol » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 6:53 AM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #358

evanmoran wrote: post #350

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I understand where you are coming from. You will be worried about ticks with or without the vaccine. I will too! But I think the vaccine isn’t for making you stop protecting yourself from ticks (it can’t do that, as you noted). The important part is it’s a small poke for a better chance at staying healthy. If you are worried in both cases, the question becomes is the time/cost to get the shot worth the result. So if…

Your calculus forgets about side effects. If the gain is very minor then it only takes minor side effects to swing the balance.

You are welcome to compare the number of cases of suspected-but-not-confirmed side effects with the number of people getting Lyme every year.

You may find a difference of a few orders of magnitude.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#377

Post by ganafagol » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 6:54 AM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #290

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #288

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't this mean that if I were to get bitten by an infected tick the odds of contracting limes disease would be at least 4x lower? Seems like a big difference to me even at the low end of the range. Maybe I'm misapplying the efficacy stat though?

You would still have to monitor for ticks and if symptoms appear (more rare) you would treat it with antibiotics and be fine. This is a minor benefit.

> you would treat it with antibiotics and be fine.

Funny how you are confirming the sentiment in the article. I'd suggest you read it.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#378

Post by ganafagol » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 6:58 AM UTC

_huayra_ wrote: post #351

wildmanx wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, thank you. I've learned what science is. It's pretty cool, you should look it up.

Do you think I'm anti-science? Hopefully the sarcasm of the parent comment was not lost on you. I wish Lymerix was available because I no longer want to have to hike or bike in the great outdoors head to toe in clothing design to avoid tick intrusion, much less worry that I was bitten on an exposed part of my skin. Now I'll just have to do it because my skin is designed to be a solar panel for vitamin D production in…

Your parent comment was written in a way to discredit vaccinations as a concept and insinuate that it is cult-like. You may want to double-check your understanding of sarcasm. It works exactly the other way around.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#379

Post by ganafagol » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 7:01 AM UTC

dukeofdoom wrote: post #262

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

You know, its not impossible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID. The absolute overconfidence in its long term safety is based on nothing other than wish full thinking. There are early signs, and warning from Doctors now. They just ignored and gaslighted by corporate media, and sadly people like you that don't know the history of previous accidents with vaccines. Early Polio Vaccines caus…

I'm confused. Do you mean the millions of "long covid" cases which already exist today? Or the estimate that about 70% of all people who got the vaccine will be dead within 3 years?

I know which of these two I consider gaslighting.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#380

Post by inter_netuser » Wed, Aug 18, 2021, 7:34 AM UTC

computer23 wrote: post #336

inter_netuser wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take a look: https://www.frontiersin.org/files/Articles/628045/fneur-12-6... These are spirochetes in the brain/spine of a dead patient who had proven lyme diagnosis, has been given the standard treatment in the past, never recovered, developed dementia, died. Full study: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280... The wikipedia article you are quoting is outdated misinformation, please stop sprea…

Inter_netuser: That Frontiers paper is about as reliable as Big Foot hunters claiming they finally found him. The authors Brian Fallon and Monica Embers have been trying to prove chronic Lyme beliefs for many years. They are funded by their antiscience movement: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4489928/ The Frontiers paper is a single case report that admits that the woman's Lyme ELISA (and hence total an…

The study contains rather painfully obvious images of the pathogen under the microscope in the brain/spine.

Seems your assertion here is that a professor of immunology at Tulane has committed fraud.

That is a very serious accusation and the onus is on you to prove that. Do you have any evidence? Can you point me to any histology experts that have disputed these findings?

1. Was the slide image in the study real? 2. Was pathogen visible in the slice? 3. Why is there a pathogen in the brain several decades later?