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Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

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Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#71

> Is there any way to prevent it? Put it into it's own namespace, and only allow it to connect to your X11 session over TCP.

If you want to prevent programs from accessing other windows, then (in addition to using its own namespace and file access) you would also need to proxy the X server, or run it in a nested X server (which does not have access to the one outside).

Specifically, Xephyr is generally the go-to option, although there are others.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#72
> Is there any way to prevent it?

Firejail[0] allows cobbling together various linux sandboxing features, including namespaces which should result in an isolated proc filesystem which doesn't see the other processes. But I don't know if the default profile for zoom does that, you have to test it or write your own.

[0] https://github.com/netblue30/firejail

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#73
post #4

Im on a Mac so I can’t issue the same … did you use strace on Linux? This is enough for me to remove the app and just use it in the browser.

> Im on a Mac so I can’t issue the same... dtruss

Sadly running dtruss on (modern) macOS requires disabling system integrity protection.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#74
post #39

And for people giving ways to prevent it, can you please provide some context for those of us who aren't OS experts?

"Zoom does not work on my computer*, can we try X instead?" With X = something the other end does not need to install, like Jitsi Meet for instance *no need to explain that's because you uninstalled it and blocked its domain on your computer.

Be careful with this. In some orgs you can get a bit of a bad reputation for being technically incompetent if you can't get zoom to run.

Zoom is very invasive / flexible - so it's actually somewhat hard to have it NOT work. People will suggest you try connecting on your phone or dialing in if you really can't figure it out (note that it has a fallback to browser option if you get stuck trying to start meeting as well).

I know of at least one job interview where they claimed they couldn't get zoom to run / couldn't connect - and that was basically decisive.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#76
post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unless I'm missing something.. all of the required information is available through the X11 protocol. Reading the command lines of the processes is unnecessary and provides data that isn't useful in the window sharing context.

This would not work on Wayland, though.

Wayland is even more strict, you ask it for screen sharing and it gives you the stream. If the compositor doesn't support screen sharing you're out of luck, there's just no way to read the contents of a window.

With X11 if the window manager doesn't have the relevant support you can always ask the server.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#77

> Is there any way to prevent it? Mounting /proc with " hidepid=2 " should prevent it from seeing processes owned by other users, although it would still be able to see your processes. Alternatively, it shouldn't be too hard to create an AppArmor profile that blocks access to /proc. Other options might include things like SELinux, seccomp-bpf, namespaces, cgroups, etc., depending on what's available on your host. Or…

I don't understand why anyone who is forced to use it doesn't use it in a browser (I have a separate Firefox container for that, same for Teams).

The browser edition of zoom lacks a lot of features and also lacks in performance.

It's not like BlueJeans which has a web version pretty much aligned with the desktop client.

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#78
I know a really good way to prevent it. Don't use zoom :) Seriously they've done so many things that show they don't care about privacy. Like that backdoor on Macs.

But if you really must, use the web version only.

If you can avoid it, jitsi is a great alternative. Much smoother video than teams and much lighter

Re: Ask HN: Why does Zoom Desktop examine all processes and arguments?

#79

> Is there any way to prevent it? Mounting /proc with " hidepid=2 " should prevent it from seeing processes owned by other users, although it would still be able to see your processes. Alternatively, it shouldn't be too hard to create an AppArmor profile that blocks access to /proc. Other options might include things like SELinux, seccomp-bpf, namespaces, cgroups, etc., depending on what's available on your host. Or…

I don't understand why anyone who is forced to use it doesn't use it in a browser (I have a separate Firefox container for that, same for Teams).

Does teams work for your in a FF container? For me it always ends up in a redirect loop :( but my work uses MCAS for external computers so that may have to do with it. It's a proxy service from MS that adds some supposed security to their services and makes them even slower.
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