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The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

foodrenegade.com

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Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#121

Post by briggsbio »

chememit wrote: post #73

Chemical engineer's perspective: This is interesting. I'd learned about the chemical additives required for flavor in from-concentrate orange juice, since the dehydration ("concentration") by nature removes a lot of the more volatile chemicals that give OJ it's flavor. Without looking into it, I'd guess the deoxygenation process works by heating and pulling vacuum to lower oxygen solubility, which would also have the…

My point exactly. How do you get juice? You pulverize and squeeze it out! So going the extra mile to extract oils for slight flavoring is bad, how?

Juice is not as good for you as whole fruit. Fine. 20 ounces of any fruit has too much sugar (and would make you shit sideways) anyway. Everything in moderation.

If you're going to drink a glass of Oj, which would you rather have, one they deoxygenate or dehydrate? Wholly or partially? I'll personally take deoxygenation over dehydrations. And the fruit juice industry's method for deoxygenation is not, to my knowledge, done via a full nitrogen sparge (bubbling nitrogen or other inert gas through the liquid to lower dissolved oxygen) or via a membrane contactor deaeration system (used in my field, drug dev, and semiconductor applications - check out http://liqui-cel.com, I've built these systems in a cGMP facility, they're awesome). It's simply vacuuming down the head space in a vat, and maybe replacing it with an inert gas (or just leaving it at negative pressure to reduce soluble oxygen as stated above. I'll take that over an OJ that has more in common with Tang than the fruit that bears it's name, anyway. So what if they tweak the flavor with a bit of ground orange to keep flavor consistent?

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#122

Post by smithian »

I'm surprised that most of the reaction and commentary on this seems to be about either 1. the vague health claims that fresh-squeezed is better than old OJ enhanced with flavoring or 2. the sugar debate

What I want to know is, why should I pay $4.29 for a carton of old flavorless juice enhanced with a flavoring cocktail, rather than $5.99 for fresh squeezed? I personally don't see the value proposition in the Tropicana any more, and while I have been buying the fresh squeezed kind (that they make from the oranges in the store) I definitely won't be buying the Tropicana/Florida's Natural again. I think if this was more well known there would be a lot fewer people willing to plonk down premium money for a fake premium product in the future.

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#123

Post by mast »

palish wrote: post #115
sambeau wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"And diet coke will not cause your body to have the same insulin response as sugar based drinks." This has recently been shown to be untrue. Recent research on rats and humans shows that drinking diet drinks gives the body an expectation of calories that it then does not receive. Perhaps due to a Pavlovian response but physically real nonetheless, the digestive system switches on and gears up to digest. When no calor…

Hey, thanks. Would you mind linking to the actual studies so I can read them? The "sugar-water + food = lost weight" bit is especially striking...

Not sure if this is the study previously mentioned, but it seems appropriate: http://professional.diabetes.org/Abstracts_Display.aspx?TYP=...

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#124

Post by zwieback »

I'm not a juice-drinker myself but I'd like a little more detail on what is actually done to the by-products. I think one thing people forget is that for most of us the choice isn't between natural/industrial, it's the choice between industrial and nothing, at least most of the year. Can you grow oranges in your backyard? In Oregon I can't and I hate grass juice.

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#125

Post by bfe »

bmj wrote: post #120
bfe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome and glad to have you. And while you're not a shill, I find your site misguided, in overly relying on equating natural, traditional diets with healthy, leading you to some recommendations that are orthogonal to healthiness, like fermented veggies and sprouted grains, and some that are unhelpful to health, like red meat and butter. The people of Finland drastically improved their health metrics when they transi…

To add to adolph's comment, could you point a citation to back up this? And while you're not a shill, I find your site misguided, in overly relying on equating natural, traditional diets with healthy, leading you to some recommendations that are orthogonal to healthiness, like fermented veggies and sprouted grains, and some that are unhelpful to health, like red meat and butter. The people of Finland drastically impr…

I was thinking of a scientific study I read a couple years ago, the citation for which escapes me at the moment. How I long for the day when I can install the Google brain history page implant beta. But five seconds on the present-day Google uncovered both: (1) a Wikipedia page on Finnish cuisine that shows a picture of a butter-slathered pastry and mentions stuff about hunting, red meat, buttermilk, and fruits and vegetables being unavailable nine months out of the year until recently; and, also on the first page of results, (2) a scientific review paper in the Journal of the American College of Surgeons by an M.D.-Ph.D. Yale professor indicating that Finland has both the world's highest consumption of saturated fatty acids and the world's highest ischemic heart disease mortality rate, and the highest rate of myocardial infarction of any of the countries surveyed in another study; and that "it is generally established that the Finnish diet of fatty red meats, butter, and bread, is highly conducive to heart disease." The best part is, it's a review article that cites 64 other scientific articles, so you can follow up with those to learn more. Here you go, with my bonus url cruft:

http://nutrilearning.com.ar/docs/articulos/interes/alimentos...

The study I had remembered reading, which I'll track down this weekend sometime when I'm not on Hacker News while getting ready to go to work, was more recent and shows new improvements in Finnish health metrics as they have moved away from their traditional diet and begun eating a lot more food from the rest of Europe.

And I share your agreement with this particular post on Kristen's blog.

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#126

Post by mast »

palish wrote: post #57
pyre wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do know basics though, like "you need vitamin C." If you eat no foods that contain essential nutrients (that our bodies don't produce) you will become deficient.

Certainly. That was an important step in our understanding. And we need to do more research. I'm merely saying science is harmed when people blatantly decide to overlook reality. It seems very interesting to me that I can drink 88oz of soda every day for the past 6 months and still be at the same weight. Why is that? And it raises other interesting questions, too. Like the meaning of "health". For example, I know my…

I know a person who routinely says "I smoke a pack of cigarettes a day. It doesn't affect my health and I don't have lung cancer, so the doctors must be wrong."

The truth is your habits will catch up to you. Eventually.

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#127

Post by bfe »

adolph wrote: post #118
bfe wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Welcome and glad to have you. And while you're not a shill, I find your site misguided, in overly relying on equating natural, traditional diets with healthy, leading you to some recommendations that are orthogonal to healthiness, like fermented veggies and sprouted grains, and some that are unhelpful to health, like red meat and butter. The people of Finland drastically improved their health metrics when they transi…

Citation please! Modern scientific findings, properly analyzed, are an astonishingly better guide to human health than any traditional collection of folk wisdom.

Really? Um, which body of pre-modern folk wisdom relies on citations to evidence? To be fair there are a few, but their cited authorities of preference are scriptural. I cited a scientific review of large studies of specific health outcomes from specific dietary habits in my other reply, but that itself is the practice of science. If you don't find that explanatory power a convincing epistemological clue, there is no end to the venues more willing than HN to spend time debating the equal dignity of traditional folk wisdom with the scientific method - churches, humanities departments, newspaper op-ed pages, etc.

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#129

Post by bmj »

bfe wrote: post #125
bmj wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to adolph's comment, could you point a citation to back up this? And while you're not a shill, I find your site misguided, in overly relying on equating natural, traditional diets with healthy, leading you to some recommendations that are orthogonal to healthiness, like fermented veggies and sprouted grains, and some that are unhelpful to health, like red meat and butter. The people of Finland drastically impr…

I was thinking of a scientific study I read a couple years ago, the citation for which escapes me at the moment. How I long for the day when I can install the Google brain history page implant beta. But five seconds on the present-day Google uncovered both: (1) a Wikipedia page on Finnish cuisine that shows a picture of a butter-slathered pastry and mentions stuff about hunting, red meat, buttermilk, and fruits and v…

Thanks.

My sense, from following Kristen's blog, is that she might be a bit appalled by the traditional Finnish diet, too. She pushes a lot of grass-fed beef and butter produced from the milk of grass-fed cattle, but she also pushes lots of vegetables, among other things.

Re: The Secret Ingredient In Your Orange Juice

#130

Post by jdunlop »

palish wrote: post #50
saturn wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No offence, but only an American could make the argument that because their weight has stayed "only" between 95kg and 100kg that they are living proof that people can eat what they want and not get fat. Unless you are a bodybuilder, which I am guessing you are not since they most certainly do care about what they eat, you are likely considered overweight in every other country on earth.

Well, here I am. Judge for yourself: http://photos-a.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash1/24114_337315700... I drink over half gallon of soda a day, and survive mostly on $1 McChickens. So I'm either a freak of nature, or we don't know as much as we think we do about nature.

While you don't look obese, you don't look too fit either. With that kind of diet, I see a coronary bypass in your future.
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