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South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

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Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#81

Post by asdff »

ddek wrote: post #39
barneybooroo wrote: post #8

It is amazing how what might seem like fairly routine engineering jobs become completely nightmarish once you do it underground. I used to commute via Goodge Street every day. A few years ago they replaced the four lifts (in twos so that two were still in service) which ultimately took two years. I could never really fathom what it was that specifically slowed that down so much but hey the lift congestion every morni…

Compound that with the depth work too. Unlike most metro systems, many London Underground (tube) lines are bored, and at a much greater depth. The Northern, Victoria, Bakerloo and Jubilee lines go under the river; while most systems route trains over bridges. The history of the tube is fascinating. The most recent lines (Victoria, Jubilee, CrossRail/Elizabeth) were built by a centralised authority. The older lines we…

As dramatic as line closures are, the impact to commuters can be minimized if the transit agency supplies shuttlebusses servicing the line in its place. When LA metro closed substantial sections of the Expo and Blue lines a few years ago, the shuttle routing only added a few extra minutes to commuters trips along those corridors.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#82

Post by asdff »

lbriner wrote: post #65
adwww wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you have odd / even trains that miss stops?

This creates a very significant passenger challenge. How do the customers know which train to get on and what if they get on the even stop and need to get off an odd stop? They have to change train. If they can't pass each other then they don't save much time. In NY, the expresses are easier to understand because the rules are very simple.

They used to do it in Chicago for a long time. Trains and stops are labelled A or B and some stops would be labelled AB if evens and odds both stopped.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#83

Post by asdff »

willyt wrote: post #77
lbriner wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it is as much about profitability but more like who should pay for it. In one world view, the people who use it should pay for it, whatever that costs, in the ticket price. This gives direct pressure to keep costs down. Another view is that it mostly benefits people in London so it should come out of London's Council tax (which I think part of it does). The other view is that it is a general benefit to…

It mostly transports people who live in the 'home counties' (the smaller towns and countryside surrounding London) to and from the major rail stations, so maybe they should pay for it. e.g. 750,000 people pass through King Cross station in the morning rush hour.

At the same time there are benefits to nontransit users having a chunk of the population use transit. The roads are clearer, for one. Less smog, for two. Higher national GDP due to less resources overall required to move labor from housing to the means of production, for three. I'm sure there are more reasons, too.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#84

Post by andrewaylett »

asdff wrote: post #81
ddek wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compound that with the depth work too. Unlike most metro systems, many London Underground (tube) lines are bored, and at a much greater depth. The Northern, Victoria, Bakerloo and Jubilee lines go under the river; while most systems route trains over bridges. The history of the tube is fascinating. The most recent lines (Victoria, Jubilee, CrossRail/Elizabeth) were built by a centralised authority. The older lines we…

As dramatic as line closures are, the impact to commuters can be minimized if the transit agency supplies shuttlebusses servicing the line in its place. When LA metro closed substantial sections of the Expo and Blue lines a few years ago, the shuttle routing only added a few extra minutes to commuters trips along those corridors.

Unfortunately, that's unlikely to work in London where there are already more people on public transport than private transport [0]. The London Underground has roughly twice the overall capacity of the London Bus network [1].

[0]: Specifically inner London, ref Page 67 of https://content.tfl.gov.uk/travel-in-london-report-13.pdf

[1]: By spaces-times-distance, ref Page 101 ibid.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#85

Post by elahd »

piinbinary wrote: post #51

It's really cool that they can use the train tracks to bring stuff into and out of the station. It seems obvious in retrospect, but that had never occurred to me before.

This isn't just a construction phenomenon. The NYC MTA uses trains for collecting garbage and, until recently, money.

https://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/mta-refuse-rigs-collect...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_train

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#87

Post by [deleted] »

jaclaz wrote: post #29
barneybooroo wrote: post #8

It is amazing how what might seem like fairly routine engineering jobs become completely nightmarish once you do it underground. I used to commute via Goodge Street every day. A few years ago they replaced the four lifts (in twos so that two were still in service) which ultimately took two years. I could never really fathom what it was that specifically slowed that down so much but hey the lift congestion every morni…

From experience in construction (both open air and underground) the key difference is not about something being underground, but rather with something being "in use" while the building site is doing the whatever work is needed. Particularly when it is something of public use, be it a highway or a railway, the amount of precautions, limitations and safety risks (in some cases for both the public and the workers) grows…

[deleted]

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#88

Post by gpvos »

willyt wrote: post #74
gpvos wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Re HS2: I am familiar with the capacity-and-speed-difference argument, but I recently found out[0] that the WCML, MML and ECML are all already four-tracked, so you already have separation of fast and slow trains. Is further separation really still worth it? [0] I don't live in the UK, so I didn't know that yet despite being a railway nerd.

Freight 60-80mph constant speed. Stopping and semi-fast passenger up to 100mph but varies a lot. Fast passenger between 125-140mph. Fast-passenger is moving to HS2 albeit at 10 times the cost it would be to do the same thing in France.

(For easier reading and understanding: freight 100-130 km/h, stopping/semi-fast up to 160 km/h, fast 200-225 km/h.)

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#89

Post by seryoiupfurds »

coremoff wrote: post #35
FabHK wrote: post #31

The article didn't mention the length of the escalator? Longest ones apparently are to be found at the Park Pobedy metro station in Moscow at 126 m, and in St Petersburg. Longest escalator system, and my favourite, is the Hong Kong Central–Mid-Levels escalator, at 790 m (2,600 ft). Many people's commute to work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central–Mid-Levels_escalator Escalator accidents: 1982 Moscow https://en.wik…

the 1987 King's Cross fire was also escalator related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Cross_fire Smoking on the escalators, wooden steps, and build-up of trash in the inaccessible area underneath them all contributed.

> This sudden transition in intensity, and the spout of fire, was due to the previously unknown trench effect, discovered by the computer simulation of the fire, and confirmed in two scale model tests.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trench_effect

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#90

Post by walshemj »

coremoff wrote: post #35
FabHK wrote: post #31

The article didn't mention the length of the escalator? Longest ones apparently are to be found at the Park Pobedy metro station in Moscow at 126 m, and in St Petersburg. Longest escalator system, and my favourite, is the Hong Kong Central–Mid-Levels escalator, at 790 m (2,600 ft). Many people's commute to work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central–Mid-Levels_escalator Escalator accidents: 1982 Moscow https://en.wik…

the 1987 King's Cross fire was also escalator related: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King%27s_Cross_fire Smoking on the escalators, wooden steps, and build-up of trash in the inaccessible area underneath them all contributed.

I just missed that fire as I left early that day to get back home for a DnD game.

My normal commute would have taken me right into the center of the fire.

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