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A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

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Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#301

Post by garyrob »

Quinner wrote: post #274
garyrob wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know where you're coming from. I believe it is the appropriate attitude in discussing misinformation with, for example, covid. BUT I really did do my own research with respect to Lyme, reading deeply into the peer-reviewed literature, and I came to the conclusion that the "scientific consensus" was formed by people too lazy or misguided to read it themselves. For example, the consensus was that Lyme couldn't persis…

A decade ago Lyme disease landed me in the hospital with carditis and neurological issues. I still worry that my brain doesn't work as well as it used to, but I don't have symptoms severe enough to make me seek out additional treatment (yet). It should be noted that while there is some evidence that Disulfiram has effectiveness against Lyme, it's not yet well-studied and the incidence of significant side effects, par…

"It should be noted that while there is some evidence that Disulfiram has effectiveness against Lyme, it's not yet well-studied and the incidence of significant side effects, particularly neurological side effects, during treatment is high enough that I wouldn't risk it."

Oh man, don't I know it. My post was about the question of whether chronic Lyme actually exists, not whether taking disulfiram is a good idea.

Both my wife and son had a VERY difficult time with the disulfiram treatment. My son, in particular, ended up in the ER one night, basically having a psychotic break. That was the day he stopped taking the disulfiram.

BUT it happens that he was almost at the end of the recommended treatment duration anyway, and EVERY indication is that both he and my wife were completely cured by it. This was probably about 2 years ago, and so it's very encouraging that there is no evidence of any recurrence.

As I mentioned, my wife and son were early in the treatment experiments, and they had high doses. The doctor who treated them has now treated a good number of people and has much more experience with different doses. With a lower dose for the same amount of time, cures are less reliable. But there are experiments with low doses for longer times.

I worry that you may have Lyme spirochetes in your brain that may predispose you to Alzheimer's. So it might not be a bad idea to look into more treatment even if you can deal with your current state.

If you do, I'd recommend talking to my wife and son's doctor, https://lymediseaseassociation.org/blogs/lda-guest-blogs/ken...

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#302

Post by dmos62 »

Anthony-G wrote: post #197
dmos62 wrote: post #88

In some parts of the world (e.g. the Eastern Bloc) you find tick-borne encephalitis. That's a horrible disease that can cause cerebral and neural damage. What's more, the number of reported human cases of TBE in all endemic regions of Europe have increased by almost 400% within the last three decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-borne_encephalitis

Thanks for highlighting this. While most hikers are aware of the dangers of Lyme disease, the encephalitis is less well-known. I only found out about it while hiking in Slovakia a few years ago. At that stage, the hiking trip had started and it was too late to get a vaccine.

My area has a relatively high infection rate, but most people I know aren't vaccinated, even if they're somewhat aware of the dangers. Having a vaccine is not enough, you also need people to use it.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#303

Post by pwenzel »

nomel wrote: post #282
pwenzel wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in Minnesota and am being treated for Lyme disease for the second time in 15 months. It's no joke. The first time I got Lyme, it came with a painful shingles co-infection on top of the usual symptoms. Now the second time, I am again worried about getting sick with something else while in an immunocompromised state. The fatigue, fever, and back pain that came along this second time was worse than the first. I n…

Have you considered hyperbaric oxygen treatment? https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24726678/

I have not. Looks interesting. To be clear, I do not have chronic lyme, but rather have been bit by a tick twice in the last year and a half and got lyme disease each time.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#304

Post by ptmcc »

im3w1l wrote: post #277
wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

> 76-92 percent after three injections That's not a lot. Like sure if herd immunity was on the table it might have been, but lyme has an animal reservoir. Like if I had 76% immunity I would still panic every time I saw a tick, so then what is the point?

That's in the ballpark of pretty much every effective vaccine ever deployed.

They are never 100%. This misconception seems to have gotten prevalent with COVID and the mRNA vaccines being "only" 90-95% effective. That is staggeringly good, better than most.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#305

Post by all2 »

jorblumesea wrote: post #261
hitpointdrew wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. Why are vaccinations a political thing now, and if anyone raises any questions whatsoever on any vaccine they are "anit-vax".

> Why are vaccinations a political thing now You could flip that upside down and ask why people are questioning the experts. Despite having almost no knowledge of statistics, epidemiology and other required skills. Vaccines with rare or almost no side effects are being called into question.

We could flip it sideways and ask "why question anything at all?"

We should not be guileless. Whether I have a piece of paper that shows others I'm an "expert" or not, I still question. I ask things like "why is this contemporary vaccine XYZ so politicized?" and "why are companies and governments paying people to take it?"

In other arenas, we say that if you receive something for free "you are the product". So I ask "why is this contemporary case any different?"

The above is only an example. I reserve my right to question. I will note that I'm in no position to dictate to others. I will also note that very few people are currently in a position to dictate to me. I desire that status quo to remain. Anything else is despotism.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#306

Post by Whitespace »

technothrasher wrote: post #142
Whitespace wrote: post #62

I caught Lyme earlier this year. Recently moved to upstate NY (20 miles from Lyme, CT) and tick checks are a daily thing. Found an adult embedded in my side. Developed a 103ºF fever and fatigue. Dr. took blood for the Lyme test but didn't wait for a positive and prescribed 2 weeks of Doxycycline. A few days later I found a bullseye rash on my leg (not near the bite area) which pretty much confirmed it. I felt 100% ar…

> Recently moved to upstate NY (20 miles from Lyme, CT) Wait, what? The only part of NY 20 miles from Lyme is the tip of Long Island. It's at least 60 miles from anything upstate.

Ahh you're correct, I'm 90 miles from Lyme, not 20.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#307

Post by giantg2 »

DetroitThrow wrote: post #270
giantg2 wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think even the article makes a mention that there is not scientific consensus on many aspects of Lyme disease. It seems it is one of many topics that have studies that may contradict other studies, or explore additional angles.

The article seems to indicate that consensus does not support Chronic Lyme Disease, instead preferring Post Treatment Lyme Disease as a pathology (which doesn't seem unlikely if the disease causes nervous system damage). It also mentions reinfection has been recorded. I'm only really seeing one data point being posted to counter that idea, and that doesn't seem to exclude the reinfection scenario. I guess the hope fo…

Ah, I didn't see that this was strictly a comment about chronic Lyme. It seems pretty well settled, but that single conflicting case does leave the door open for further study, even if only to determine how a fluke happened.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#308

Post by gknoy »

crypot wrote: post #134
jemurray wrote: post #75

I know this is about Lyme disease, but let me add another word of caution while we are discussing ticks. Two years ago I was bit by the Lone Star tick. Since that time I developed an allergy to all red meat. It was hard to diagnose and a few of the doctors I worked with along the years still don’t believe its true. If your interested in learning more search for Alpha Gal. There is an excellent Radio Lab podcast about…

I was bit by a tick in 2010. I pulled it off my forearm and it left a protrusion that lasted about 2 weeks. No rings. I got sick with a flu around this time. Went to the doctor, the lyme test came back negative. Shortly after this I started to develop lesions in my mouth and scalp. Then they spread to my entire body. 6 months later got a diagnosis of an autoimmune blistering disease. The specialist said it was a usua…

> 8 years of oral antibiotics

Holy cow. That is a frightening amount of time to have to take those.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#309

Post by quesera »

giantg2 wrote: post #78
somehnacct3757 wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The deer themselves are a problem in the northeast. They are greatly overpopulated and eat the native understory, preventing the next generation of trees from growing past adolescence. As the existing trees slowly die, there will be none younger to replace them. This also clears out the competition to the benefit of non-native plants, which the deer don't eat. Some of these plants are invasive, such as japanese barbe…

The mice are the main component to the lyme lifecycle. There is a researcher working to give mice immunity using crispr. Generally, the deer are only overpopulating (at least to the extent you describe) in areas that aren't hunted, which also tend to be highly populated. It seems many people enjoy seeing the deer in their backyards and don't want their almost-pets to be killed, especially if it means it might have to…

Both small mammal and large mammal hosts are required in the deer tick lifecycle.

White-footed mice are the most common host for the small mammal portion (but there are many options), and deer are the most common host for the large mammal portion.

Deer are easier to count and control than mice/voles/moles/chipmunks/etc.

So controlling deer populations is more likely to be successful in breaking the deer tick lifecycle.

So sayeth a publication from researchers at the University of Connecticut, at least.

I'm sympathetic with the almost-pet Bambi-loving crowd. But Lyme is real and not at all cuddly. Bring back the wolves!

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#310

Post by bkallus »

torgoguys wrote: post #80
bkallus wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The McDonald's coffee case is often cited this way, but I think a spilled a coffee that causes third-degree burns and necessitates skin grafts is probably too hot. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restau...

The article you linked to notes they still serve the coffee at the same temperturea today, just changing the cups and adding warnings. Probably not too hot or they would have changed it after the lawsuit.

This is a good point (and so are the other responses here)
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