A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way • Hacker News Board

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#281

Post by alfon » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

inter_netuser wrote: post #83

ce4 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's no definitive accredited lab check as far as I know. At least here in Germany the official serologic tests for late stage Lyme can come back negative for years until the disease really progresses badly - even cerebrospinal fluid results may be normal despite neurological symptoms. My specialist uses elispot lab tests for Borrelia b. OspA, antigen and LFA-1 markers. Other practitioners use westernblot lab resu…

have you seen recent immunostaining result? albeit in research, amazingly you can actually see the bacteria. They claim it can be cultured too. https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280...

Thanks for that link, super interesting.

Check out also Dualdur, received 3MEur from EU in 2018.

https://lymediagnostics.com/why-dd/

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#282

Post by nomel » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:09 PM UTC

pwenzel wrote: post #254

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

I live in Minnesota and am being treated for Lyme disease for the second time in 15 months. It's no joke. The first time I got Lyme, it came with a painful shingles co-infection on top of the usual symptoms. Now the second time, I am again worried about getting sick with something else while in an immunocompromised state. The fatigue, fever, and back pain that came along this second time was worse than the first. I n…

Have you considered hyperbaric oxygen treatment?

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/24726678/

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#283

Post by markenqualitaet » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:12 PM UTC

dukeofdoom wrote: post #262

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

You know, its not impossible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID. The absolute overconfidence in its long term safety is based on nothing other than wish full thinking. There are early signs, and warning from Doctors now. They just ignored and gaslighted by corporate media, and sadly people like you that don't know the history of previous accidents with vaccines. Early Polio Vaccines caus…

I assume you mean the vaccine.

"Long term effects" here doesn't mean what you think it means....

In the past, long term side effects were still occuring with weeks or few month after the shot. However, the statistical signal may be delayed for years or decades to manifest.

It's very hard to think of a way how anything could cause side effect years down the line. Vaccines do not contain beryllium or asbestos. The mRNA vaccines do not even contain mercury or other heavy metals. Mind you, 'none' means less than a can of tuna. They do not remain in the body for long. None of it.

That's why people aren't too worried, rationally. Long term effects whould have shown already.

If you indeed mean COVID, I agree. There may be late long term effects, because of the diffuse organ damage and persistent infections.

Of course any strong immune stimulation may slightly increase or decrease the risk for derailing or aging the immune system. Which may sooner, e.g. autoimmune disease risk, or later, e.g. lymphoma risk, manifest.

For COVID it's a silly debate, because you will get infected or vaccinated in any case.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#284

Post by at_a_remove » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:16 PM UTC

mrfusion wrote: post #264

at_a_remove wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know when I bring my deer into the vet for their annual checkup, they'll probably offer the shot pretty soon.

You could mix it into food or salt licks or even hire people to hit them with medicine darts. I thought I’ve heard of that for deer birth control before?

Edible vaccines are not easy. There's a reason you are still getting injections.

Shooting them with darts, well, those would be a hell of a lot more expensive than bullets. It seems ... fraught with a lot of potential for unexpected effects.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#285

Post by notabee » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

pwenzel wrote: post #254

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

I live in Minnesota and am being treated for Lyme disease for the second time in 15 months. It's no joke. The first time I got Lyme, it came with a painful shingles co-infection on top of the usual symptoms. Now the second time, I am again worried about getting sick with something else while in an immunocompromised state. The fatigue, fever, and back pain that came along this second time was worse than the first. I n…

Shingles is caused by varicella (chickenpox) virus that's already latent in your nerves. Really unlikely that it was a "co-infection", it just reactivated because your body was busy fighting Lyme.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#286

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:17 PM UTC

hitpointdrew wrote: post #239

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

>but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. Why are vaccinations a political thing now, and if anyone raises any questions whatsoever on any vaccine they are "anit-vax".

I see nothing to say it gave people Lyme disease. The *claim* is that it caused the same sort of arthritis that Lyme disease can cause.

Note that the class action suits were settled without paying the "victims" anything. That shows they were garbage from the start.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#287

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

adrr wrote: post #275

tablespoon wrote: post #252

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It wasn't "very rare" and the side effect was that it literally gave people lym disease. It sounds like it didn't actually do that: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lyme_disease#Vaccination : > Subsequently, hundreds of vaccine recipients reported they had developed autoimmune and other side effects. Supported by some advocacy groups, a number of class-action lawsuits were filed against GlaxoSmithKline, alleging the v…

Same thing happened to silicone breast implants. Lots of class action lawsuits claiming leaking silicone caused health issues. Lawsuits bankrupted Dow Corning. There was no evidence that it caused issues and you can still get silicone implants today.

Yeah, when the science was in the symptoms claimed to be caused by the implants were more common in women without implants than in women with implants.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#288

Post by only_as_i_fall » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:18 PM UTC

im3w1l wrote: post #277

wildmanx wrote: post #236

What shocks me most with this story is that there is a vaccine (Lymerix), and it's pretty effective (76-92 percent after three injections) but apparently some anti-vax propaganda and a class-action lawsuit essentially removed it from the market. Based on a very rare side effect. Wtf? How can that be? Just tell people the risks of side effects, and if they are ok with that risk then the manufacturer is off the hook. I…

> 76-92 percent after three injections That's not a lot. Like sure if herd immunity was on the table it might have been, but lyme has an animal reservoir. Like if I had 76% immunity I would still panic every time I saw a tick, so then what is the point?

Doesn't this mean that if I were to get bitten by an infected tick the odds of contracting limes disease would be at least 4x lower?

Seems like a big difference to me even at the low end of the range.

Maybe I'm misapplying the efficacy stat though?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#289

Post by LorenPechtel » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

markenqualitaet wrote: post #283

dukeofdoom wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You know, its not impossible for millions of people to have long term side effects from COVID. The absolute overconfidence in its long term safety is based on nothing other than wish full thinking. There are early signs, and warning from Doctors now. They just ignored and gaslighted by corporate media, and sadly people like you that don't know the history of previous accidents with vaccines. Early Polio Vaccines caus…

I assume you mean the vaccine. "Long term effects" here doesn't mean what you think it means.... In the past, long term side effects were still occuring with weeks or few month after the shot. However, the statistical signal may be delayed for years or decades to manifest. It's very hard to think of a way how anything could cause side effect years down the line. Vaccines do not contain beryllium or asbestos. The mRNA…

The claim was that in some individuals the vaccine caused an auto-immune reaction. It seems to me that anyone who had that problem would have developed the same problem if they got the disease.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#290

Post by im3w1l » Tue, Aug 17, 2021, 5:22 PM UTC

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #288

im3w1l wrote: post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 76-92 percent after three injections That's not a lot. Like sure if herd immunity was on the table it might have been, but lyme has an animal reservoir. Like if I had 76% immunity I would still panic every time I saw a tick, so then what is the point?

Doesn't this mean that if I were to get bitten by an infected tick the odds of contracting limes disease would be at least 4x lower? Seems like a big difference to me even at the low end of the range. Maybe I'm misapplying the efficacy stat though?

You would still have to monitor for ticks and if symptoms appear (more rare) you would treat it with antibiotics and be fine. This is a minor benefit.