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South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

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Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#71

Post by frosted-flakes »

_jal wrote: post #59
Symbiote wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you use the London Underground late enough, you occasionally see engineering trains pass through. I think they move them to sidings in central London very late in the evening, so that after the last passenger train has departed (00:30-01:00) the equipment/materials can be where they're needed in just a few minutes. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/London_Underground_engineering... [2] A web search for "London Und…

Speaking of special-purpose trains, the NYC MTA used to run an armored train for collecting fares from stations. https://untappedcities.com/2016/02/12/the-mtas-special-armor...

Lots of systems did that, including Toronto, and for daily trash collection too. But logistically it's simpler to do that via surface streets nowadays, especially with late-night or all-night train service.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#72

Post by Symbiote »

gpvos wrote: post #69
noneeeed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to have express and stopping trains on the same track is to have frequent passing places. Scheduling and signalling get fiendishly complex. On somewhere like the underground, where building those extra passing places is really hard it just isn't worth it. This is one of the big missunderstandings about the HS2 line. Politicians focus on the shorter journey times, but the big win is actually increased cap…

Re HS2: I am familiar with the capacity-and-speed-difference argument, but I recently found out[0] that the WCML, MML and ECML are all already four-tracked, so you already have separation of fast and slow trains. Is further separation really still worth it? [0] I don't live in the UK, so I didn't know that yet despite being a railway nerd.

The WCML has to accommodate very long distance express trains, regional trains, suburban/commuter trains, and freight.

I think you can read section 2 of [1], and the start of section 3. With enough trains, you can still fill up a four-track railway.

[1] https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/...

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#74

Post by willyt »

gpvos wrote: post #69
noneeeed wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only way to have express and stopping trains on the same track is to have frequent passing places. Scheduling and signalling get fiendishly complex. On somewhere like the underground, where building those extra passing places is really hard it just isn't worth it. This is one of the big missunderstandings about the HS2 line. Politicians focus on the shorter journey times, but the big win is actually increased cap…

Re HS2: I am familiar with the capacity-and-speed-difference argument, but I recently found out[0] that the WCML, MML and ECML are all already four-tracked, so you already have separation of fast and slow trains. Is further separation really still worth it? [0] I don't live in the UK, so I didn't know that yet despite being a railway nerd.

Freight 60-80mph constant speed. Stopping and semi-fast passenger up to 100mph but varies a lot. Fast passenger between 125-140mph. Fast-passenger is moving to HS2 albeit at 10 times the cost it would be to do the same thing in France.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#75

Post by Symbiote »

lbriner wrote: post #67
helloguillecl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why so many people and politicians speak about profitability as if it was an optional system for a modern city to have. Yes, the income via transportation fees are usually similar to operating expenses, but like it's the case with roads, no one should expect for it to cover the full cost of building the infraestructure, much like roads. The tube is not a part of a closed system and delivers thousands of o…

I don't think it is as much about profitability but more like who should pay for it. In one world view, the people who use it should pay for it, whatever that costs, in the ticket price. This gives direct pressure to keep costs down. Another view is that it mostly benefits people in London so it should come out of London's Council tax (which I think part of it does). The other view is that it is a general benefit to…

TfL is funded from fares, the congestion charge, business rates and grants from the Greater London Authority — which itself is funded by the national government and some council tax.

https://tfl.gov.uk/corporate/about-tfl/how-we-work/how-we-ar...

(Note TfL are also paying for buses, trams and many larger roads in London.)

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#76

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

nickdothutton wrote: post #28
traceroute66 wrote: post #6

To be honest, for me the most interesting part of the blog post was this one-liner "for an unbuilt high-speed District line service between South Kensington and Mansion House with just one stop at Embankment.". As one of the millions who at some historical point in their lives has had to suffer the District line commute, the above is a thought I used to have regularly whilst stuck sniffing someone's armpit on the Dis…

One of the things you need to remember when thinking about the London Underground, is that it was a scheme that was ultimately unfinished. There were great plans between the world wars to extend it in size and functionality but ultimately these were all stopped by WW2 and an impoverished UK couldn’t afford to do them afterwards. It was planned to extend the network well into Surrey, Kent and other places.

They also chose not to build many of the suburbs that the extended lines would have served, and instead to keep those areas rural as the Metropolitan Green Belt and to build new towns further away from London.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#77

Post by willyt »

lbriner wrote: post #67
helloguillecl wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't get why so many people and politicians speak about profitability as if it was an optional system for a modern city to have. Yes, the income via transportation fees are usually similar to operating expenses, but like it's the case with roads, no one should expect for it to cover the full cost of building the infraestructure, much like roads. The tube is not a part of a closed system and delivers thousands of o…

I don't think it is as much about profitability but more like who should pay for it. In one world view, the people who use it should pay for it, whatever that costs, in the ticket price. This gives direct pressure to keep costs down. Another view is that it mostly benefits people in London so it should come out of London's Council tax (which I think part of it does). The other view is that it is a general benefit to…

It mostly transports people who live in the 'home counties' (the smaller towns and countryside surrounding London) to and from the major rail stations, so maybe they should pay for it. e.g. 750,000 people pass through King Cross station in the morning rush hour.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#78

Post by Ichthypresbyter »

I remember hearing that the very long walk between South Kensington station and the Exhibition Road exit (for the museums) is because the line was routed far away from Exhibition Road to avoid vibrations from the trains disturbing sensitive experiments at Imperial College.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#79

Post by sschueller »

lbriner wrote: post #68
sschueller wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You have to maintain and replace all infrastructure eventually. Maintenance should be part of the project calculation and how items are maintained should also be part of that. Additionally how things are maintained needs to be updated to go with new technologies and methods. I see this with for example the public transport in Zürich, Switzerland. Some of the light rail is very old but they are maintenance revisions d…

Great in theory but if you are managing a system now, you would rather spend money on things you need now, you aren't going to keep it in the bank for some future day when the escalator needs replacing. I suspect that equipment is depreciated in TfL accounts but the people 50 years ago wouldn't know how much this replacement would have cost so who knows.

The trains will run for 100+ years. This is possible because almost all parts can be made in house and those that can't are eventually replaced.

I'm fact the Zürich rail company (ZVV) in their purchase deal of the bombadier light rail included all plans for all parts. Bombadier was not happy but the ZVV has to make sure they can service the trains even if the manufacturer goes away.

This is also the reason LED lighting it a very delayed roll out in the city because the city can not use a light that is vendor locked which most commercial LED setups are. The old Natrium lighting can be purchased anywhere from. many different vendors. The fitting is standardized.

Re: South Kensington station's escalator replacement project

#80

Post by asdff »

FabHK wrote: post #31

The article didn't mention the length of the escalator? Longest ones apparently are to be found at the Park Pobedy metro station in Moscow at 126 m, and in St Petersburg. Longest escalator system, and my favourite, is the Hong Kong Central–Mid-Levels escalator, at 790 m (2,600 ft). Many people's commute to work. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central–Mid-Levels_escalator Escalator accidents: 1982 Moscow https://en.wik…

The Wilshire Vermont metro station in Los Angeles has the longest escalator west of the mississippi river. It's so long that its much faster actually to take the elevator from that platform, if you can out run people from the train to the single elevator that is. The escalator system at Universal Studios Hollywood is also pretty impressive.
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