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A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

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Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#151

Post by serial_dev »

voisin wrote: post #49
ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've pulled four of the little bastards off me, this summer (so far). They have gotten much worse, in the last few years (Long Island, NY). I also know a few (several) folks that have had very bad, life-changing debilitation, as a result of Lyme. I'm aware of one (that I never met), who died from complications of Lyme. I also have a family member, that got it pretty badly, recovered completely, and now seems to be im…

How are you getting checked? I understood (perhaps wrongly) that the blood tests are only accurate well beyond the window with which the medications are effective, creating a chicken and egg issue.

After a couple of days in the mountains, I found four ticks, and one bite started to turn red after two weeks.

I went to the doctor, she said the tests at this phase are unreliable, my bite could be Lyme, but could be something else too (the bulls eye rings didn't form yet). She said the pragmatic approach is too treat it as if it was Lyme and take antibiotics. It's better to take some antibiotics than wait for the symptoms (which are not always easy to assign to lyme).

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#152

Post by ghaff »

ChrisMarshallNY wrote: post #42
spicybright wrote: post #23

As a US new england-er, this is game changer for walking through woods. For those un-informed, on a walk through any woods, you should always wear high socks, and do a full body check for ticks after. Deer ticks can be as small as a few grains of sand, and near undetectable if they latch on unless you have sharp eyes. Obviously they can transmit lymes. I had a close encounter a few years ago, but very luckily giant r…

I've pulled four of the little bastards off me, this summer (so far). They have gotten much worse, in the last few years (Long Island, NY). I also know a few (several) folks that have had very bad, life-changing debilitation, as a result of Lyme. I'm aware of one (that I never met), who died from complications of Lyme. I also have a family member, that got it pretty badly, recovered completely, and now seems to be im…

I haven't seen any recently but they were really bad earlier in the summer in Massachusetts to the point that there were a couple walks that I was doing regularly that I decided to forgo for a bit. And anecdotally I've heard a similar story from others. (Fortunately, everything I've seen have been the larger dog ticks.)

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#153

Post by jacksonkmarley »

nicoburns wrote: post #126
jacksonkmarley wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Being able to detect Borrelia Spirochetes is not equivalent to linking them with chronic symptoms.

I think the key thing is that it disproves the idea that the bacteria which cause the disease are reliably eliminated by antibiotics, which is typically a key point that those in the "it's not cause by lyme" camp rely on. Doesn't prove that it is lyme, but it shifts the balance of probablities considerably.

I don't have an opinion on what the "it's not caused by lyme" camp rely on, but the wikipedia page complained about above actually already references another study that found spirochetes in animals after antibiotic treatment.

No doubt the language in that wikipedia page is pretty triggering if you already believe chronic lyme disease is a thing though.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#154

Post by Grazester »

spicybright wrote: post #23

As a US new england-er, this is game changer for walking through woods. For those un-informed, on a walk through any woods, you should always wear high socks, and do a full body check for ticks after. Deer ticks can be as small as a few grains of sand, and near undetectable if they latch on unless you have sharp eyes. Obviously they can transmit lymes. I had a close encounter a few years ago, but very luckily giant r…

I go hiking a lot in the Hudson area of New York and have my concerns about ticks too. As you said, tall sock are recommended. I also use permethrin on all my lower items of clothing including shoes. I sometimes also use Off on my exposed skin areas and then check for ticks after my hikes.

My wife was once bitten by something through her pants. That left a small ring. I do doubt it was a tick though.

My sister on the other hand was bitten by something a few years ago, she thinks it was a spider. There were multiple red rings extending far and she started having other reactions and needed hospitalization. They pumped her so full of anti-biotics(was on a drip for days), it left her digestive system screwy for months but at least she does not have Lyme disease now.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#155

Post by kortex »

mrfusion wrote: post #104

I’ve found the biggest places to watch out for ticks are where not many people go. Little travelled trails. The heavily trafficked areas seem to have way less ticks. My working theory is the deer to human ratio of an area determines how many deer ticks.

My partner got a bullseye-inducing tick byte in our front yard in suburban upstate NY. Hardly little-traveled.

The absolute quantity of deer is more important than the deer/human ratio. Lawns make it super easy for deer to migrate, human presence suppresses wolves and other predators, and mice love our trash, houses, bird feeders, and pet food.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#156

Post by inter_netuser »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #135
inter_netuser wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cannot be repeated enough: "few of the doctors I worked with along the years still don’t believe its true" a medical opinion is just that. an opinion . consensus often takes decades to change.

A doctor's opinion on disease isn't merely an opinion, it's an educated guess based on experience and qualifications. New diseases and research are constantly appearing, thousands of articles are written each year. We can't expect doctors to know everything, but we can expect them to have more informed opinions, on average, than non-doctors. I say this because there's a rising trend of anti-intellectualism and distru…

Indeed, there is plenty of distrust. If they are doing such a great job though, why the distrust?

I don't know a single person with a significant chronic condition in the US who would say the health system and all their physicians are amazing and great. Usually you hear the exact opposite.

However, stories about that gem of a doctor they finally found over the years are very common. Most physician suck, not sure why.

Loss of trust is indeed very unfortunate, counterproductive and indeed leads to unnecessary suffering.

Physicians are highly educated professionals in a legally protected rent-seeking monopoly, backed by a powerful trade union, AMA, and the corresponding social status/wealth/authority that comes with all that. Seems to me it's only fair that the onus is entirely on them to win that trust back. I'm not holding my breath though.

Medicine is just another business. Remember that next time you see a doctor.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#157

Post by Dma54rhs »

dmos62 wrote: post #88

In some parts of the world (e.g. the Eastern Bloc) you find tick-borne encephalitis. That's a horrible disease that can cause cerebral and neural damage. What's more, the number of reported human cases of TBE in all endemic regions of Europe have increased by almost 400% within the last three decades. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tick-borne_encephalitis

It's a bad disease in the region but there's a vaccine for it readily available that you should take if you are connected to woods and nature.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#158

Post by nitrogen »

Dumblydorr wrote: post #135
inter_netuser wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This cannot be repeated enough: "few of the doctors I worked with along the years still don’t believe its true" a medical opinion is just that. an opinion . consensus often takes decades to change.

A doctor's opinion on disease isn't merely an opinion, it's an educated guess based on experience and qualifications. New diseases and research are constantly appearing, thousands of articles are written each year. We can't expect doctors to know everything, but we can expect them to have more informed opinions, on average, than non-doctors. I say this because there's a rising trend of anti-intellectualism and distru…

trend of anti-intellectualism and distrust of doctors

As someone who knows a practicing doctor who is also anti-vax, these are orthogonal issues. Sometimes, distrusting a specific doctor is the more intellectual approach.

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#159

Post by loceng »

bobo_legos wrote: post #98
inter_netuser wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many report chronic symptoms, who have been laughed at for decades. Chronic persistence (at least in some cases) has now been proven. Took someone with chronic lyme to donate the brain for research: https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fneur.2021.6280...

Kris Kirstofferson was told by doctors that his memory loss was either Alzheimer's or Dementia. Another doctor finally decided to test him for lyme. Turns out he he probably got bitten by a tick shooting a movie 10 years prior to the positive test. https://www.rollingstone.com/feature/kris-kristofferson-an-o...

Huh, I wonder if my executive dysfunction in part could be Lyme disease. I was bitten 10+ years ago - had to pull it off, though it hadn't been there long as it hadn't latched on deeply yet - it did cause a small ring; I did get and take short course of antibiotics immediately after as far as I remember.

I've heard common bloodwork done is very poor at detecting it but is there a better or sure way of detecting it?

Re: A shot to prevent Lyme disease could be on its way

#160

Post by gilbetron »

inter_netuser wrote: post #81
jemurray wrote: post #75

I know this is about Lyme disease, but let me add another word of caution while we are discussing ticks. Two years ago I was bit by the Lone Star tick. Since that time I developed an allergy to all red meat. It was hard to diagnose and a few of the doctors I worked with along the years still don’t believe its true. If your interested in learning more search for Alpha Gal. There is an excellent Radio Lab podcast about…

This cannot be repeated enough: "few of the doctors I worked with along the years still don’t believe its true" a medical opinion is just that. an opinion . consensus often takes decades to change.

We, as patients, pass around these apocryphal stories around, but don't look at the opposite experience of doctors. Doctors constantly, and I mean multiple times per day, get patients in that tell them their symptoms are due to disease or condition or complex X. Time and again, the patient is completely wrong. No, you don't have cancer, your lymph node hurts because it is fighting off an infection, and besides if it was cancer, the node wouldn't hurt. No, you don't have lyme disease, you're sore because you started gardening again and you are 50. No, you don't have an ulcer, you're just eating too much ice cream before going to bed.

As humans, we forget about the times we were wrong, and also don't share those stories. "I went to the doctor thinking I was dying of cancer, but it turns out I'm allergic to mushrooms" is much less likely to be passed around as a story than, "No doctors would listen to me until one did and tested me and found out I have Lyme disease."

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