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Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

sciencemag.org

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Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#161

Post by bakul »

oliv__ wrote: post #84

What I'm curious about is: what happens now? When everyone starts realizing that vaccines and masks can't fully contain a spread, what's the next logical step to take? Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear for the next 50 years or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world…

Perhaps this will be a spur to invent a better mask? I believe fear will subside as over time most people tend to adjust to new realities.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#162

Post by atom_arranger »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #63
pizza wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wuhan has been reopened for a long time now. We had every piece of information to make a good decision at the time in February 2020. Now we are thrashed about in a sea of half-measures, societal tension, and the total closing up of public life. We were so lost even by the time the CDC was encouraging people to not wear masks because it'll give you higher risk of contracting covid . Now our future's truly new.

Actually large sections of China are being locked back down again as they contend with new outbreaks. The whole concept of the Immaculate Covid Response has aged terribly as one "did it right" country after another either has had major outbreaks (Japan) or resorted to completely draconian and even militarized responses (Australia, NZ) to keep the spread down.

Things have only gone this way recently because of the delta variant, if all countries had taken the virus as seriously as those countries the delta variant probably wouldn’t exist and these countries would now be able to effectively vaccinate their populations.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#163

Post by zpeti »

dragonwriter wrote: post #152
zpeti wrote: post #149

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm tired of hearing that masks don't have consequences and are just basic precautions. I for one feel it massively reduces the quality of my interactions and trust in people. I find it much harder to communicate properly. The long term consequences of this are not taken into account. And I'm vaccinated, everyone in my country who wants to be vaccinated is. Why should I reduce the quality of my life for people who ma…

> And I'm vaccinated, everyone in my country who wants to be vaccinated is. Why should I reduce the quality of my life for people who made a choice and took a risk? Vaccination isn’t a magic talisman against infection, or against illness if infected, or against transmitting the disease if infected. It reduces the likelihood of each , all other things being equal, but it isn't a guarantee against any of them (and is l…

OK, so basically humanity so far was in the wrong for not wearing masks for cold, flu, and every other transmissible disease, and we should wear masks forever in public?

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#164

Post by smnrchrds »

nl wrote: post #104
smnrchrds wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's the topic of the article. You are much less likely to end up in a hospital or ICU if you are vaccinated, but it won't be extraordinary, especially if you are old. > What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. O…

> > What is clear is that “breakthrough” cases are not the rare events the term implies. As of 15 August, 514 Israelis were hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19, a 31% increase from just 4 days earlier. Of the 514, 59% were fully vaccinated. Of the vaccinated, 87% were 60 or older. This is a bad interpretation by the article's author. At some point (at 100% vaccination rate) we'd expect 100% of people in hos…

Regardless of the rate, the absolute number is staggeringly high. As you said, Israel has 303 fully vaccinated people hospitalized with severe or critical COVID-19. Adjusting for population, that's the equivalent of the US having 10,700 fully vaccinated people hospitalized at any one point, and that's just for critical and severe cases. If they all need ICU beds, that's like having 10 to 20% of America's ICU beds permanently occupied by Covid patients. It's still much better than the case without vaccines, but if these numbers are true, there is a lot of cause for concern.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#165

Post by me_me_me »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #141
zuminator wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an airbag in my car, but I also wear a seatbelt, obey the posted speed limits, use turn signals, stop at red traffic lights, and abstain from consuming alcohol while driving. This isn't "living in fear," it's observing reasonable caution in my daily life. I don't expect there will be "Zero accidents," but I want to avoid being injured and avoid causing injury to others. And I expect I'll keep taking these pre…

Wearing a mask is not a small ask. If it was, attendance at bars, restaurants, shows, etc. would not fall off a cliff when imposed.

> Wearing a mask is not a small ask.

Of course it is, I have been wearing mask for 2 years now. And I am wearing glasses.

Is washing your hands too much to ask too?

> If it was, attendance at bars, restaurants, shows, etc.

That was due to social distancing and lockdowns, not masks.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#166

Post by NonContro »

dragonwriter wrote: post #157
oliv__ wrote: post #84

What I'm curious about is: what happens now? When everyone starts realizing that vaccines and masks can't fully contain a spread, what's the next logical step to take? Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear for the next 50 years or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world…

> Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear I get a flu shot every year and wear a seatbelt when I drive. Not living in fear of either. Taking reasonable precautions doesn't involve living in fear. > or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world and move on? Look at the places…

Florida has a higher age 65+ vaccination rate than California or New York: https://www.mayoclinic.org/coronavirus-covid-19/vaccine-trac...

Respiratory viruses peak earlier before Winter in the tropics (ie. the South USA) whereas they peak during the Winter in the North.

Southern USA will peak and fall, and then this Winter you'll see the same thing in the Northern USA. Its just the seasonality of colds/flus which has been known for decades.

Be prepared because this Winter seasonal peak will be blamed on a new 'variant', and used to push either new lockdowns/restrictions, or booster shots.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#167

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #141
zuminator wrote: post #133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an airbag in my car, but I also wear a seatbelt, obey the posted speed limits, use turn signals, stop at red traffic lights, and abstain from consuming alcohol while driving. This isn't "living in fear," it's observing reasonable caution in my daily life. I don't expect there will be "Zero accidents," but I want to avoid being injured and avoid causing injury to others. And I expect I'll keep taking these pre…

Wearing a mask is not a small ask. If it was, attendance at bars, restaurants, shows, etc. would not fall off a cliff when imposed.

Wearing a mask is one of the least inconvenient inconveniences I've had during this pandemic.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#168

Post by me_me_me »

zpeti wrote: post #163
dragonwriter wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I'm vaccinated, everyone in my country who wants to be vaccinated is. Why should I reduce the quality of my life for people who made a choice and took a risk? Vaccination isn’t a magic talisman against infection, or against illness if infected, or against transmitting the disease if infected. It reduces the likelihood of each , all other things being equal, but it isn't a guarantee against any of them (and is l…

OK, so basically humanity so far was in the wrong for not wearing masks for cold, flu, and every other transmissible disease, and we should wear masks forever in public?

YES! They did it in many asian countries before. When you feel under the weather you'd go to work/town in the mask not to spread.

Also cold/flu cases are way down due to people masking up and cleaning hands.

A lot of people complain about seatbelts being uncomfortable during driving, and yet its a law to wear them. Why?

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#169

Post by 0xdeadb00f »

zpeti wrote: post #163
dragonwriter wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> And I'm vaccinated, everyone in my country who wants to be vaccinated is. Why should I reduce the quality of my life for people who made a choice and took a risk? Vaccination isn’t a magic talisman against infection, or against illness if infected, or against transmitting the disease if infected. It reduces the likelihood of each , all other things being equal, but it isn't a guarantee against any of them (and is l…

OK, so basically humanity so far was in the wrong for not wearing masks for cold, flu, and every other transmissible disease, and we should wear masks forever in public?

People have worn masks for all of those things. Have you ever set foot in an Asian country? (Or at least seem videos, pictures, media from one?). I've even witnessed mask wearing within the Asian communities in my (western) country.

Long before covid mask wearing has been an insanely common thing to do when you're sick.

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