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Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

sciencemag.org

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Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#141

Post by bingohbangoh »

zuminator wrote: post #133
oliv__ wrote: post #84

What I'm curious about is: what happens now? When everyone starts realizing that vaccines and masks can't fully contain a spread, what's the next logical step to take? Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear for the next 50 years or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world…

There's an airbag in my car, but I also wear a seatbelt, obey the posted speed limits, use turn signals, stop at red traffic lights, and abstain from consuming alcohol while driving. This isn't "living in fear," it's observing reasonable caution in my daily life. I don't expect there will be "Zero accidents," but I want to avoid being injured and avoid causing injury to others. And I expect I'll keep taking these pre…

Wearing a mask is not a small ask.

If it was, attendance at bars, restaurants, shows, etc. would not fall off a cliff when imposed.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#142

Post by bingohbangoh »

SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #124
legerdemain wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Europeans learned to live with the bubonic plague, which has never been eradicated, and Native Americans, over time, overcame the smallpox that was introduced among them. The people of today can do the same with Covid. It is the only way.

The bubonic plague killed around a third of Europe (1) and upended the social order for generations (2). Up to 90% of Native Americans died from smallpox and other imported diseases (3) and it's clear that their societies were in fact overcome. They died a lot. To handwave "learn to live with" is naïve and facile. A virus can't care if we lose a double-digit percentage of population, but we're not choosing that cours…

COVID is not nearly as deadly and we know this after 18 months of living with it.

Please stop comparing the two.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#143

Post by twelve40 »

lamontcg wrote: post #120
oliv__ wrote: post #84

What I'm curious about is: what happens now? When everyone starts realizing that vaccines and masks can't fully contain a spread, what's the next logical step to take? Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear for the next 50 years or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world…

Hospitals are collapsing again, we can't ignore it. Get people vaccinated. Or else we're going to wind up "flattening the curve" again until we finally burn through enough dead people that everyone is effectively either recovered or immunized and then the endemic burden should be an order of magnitude lower. And hospitals only have so much throughput going through the ICU and into the morgue that they can sustain, wh…

> Get people vaccinated

Repeating this line doesn't really work anymore. I vaccinated myself and my whole family months ago, my county has ~80% full vaccination rate, anyone and everyone who could and wanted to, got a shot already.

Yet, there are 90 million people in this country that don't give a shit and will not vaccinate. Worse, soon the vaccine will probably wear out, and then the whole country will have to be convinced all over again to get a booster shot, who knows how many times, too. And then there is stuff like TFA that says that although vaccines are the best we've got so far, vaccinated people still end up in the hospital.

So although I'll personally line up for any booster shots the moment they become available, the reality is probably going to get much more complicated than vaccinating everyone and moving on.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#144

Post by the_dune_13 »

oliv__ wrote: post #94
wrl wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realise that COVID, like other viruses, replicates by injecting mRNA into cells, yes? That mRNA does a lot more than print some spike proteins. Hell, we don't understand what most of the COVID accessory proteins do. Again, I stand by what I said – "foolhardy". > We don't know what we don't know. So you think we should all try our luck with live COVID and just hope for the best? Demonstrated long-term health probl…

> So you think we should all try our luck with live COVID and just hope for the best? Not all: people at risk (older people, people with auto-immune disease and people with existing conditions), just not healthy, active, young people. > Demonstrated long-term health problems vs potential ones? The demonstrated effects you are referring to only affect a minuscule portion of people who get COVID. So it's not exactly de…

> Just not healthy, active, young people.

Not true.

https://ctmirror.org/2021/08/10/covid-hospitalizations-skew-...

> minuscule portion of people who get COVID

Not true.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-021-01511-z

> you're the one who's overly confident of their knowledge here.

Ironic.

> some percentages on the risk of getting long COVID?

Linked above. Based on 20k patients in the UK

>because there are none

They are.

>Because we don't know what we don't know

I'm pretty sure we know enough to know who is hospitalized.

>you think what you say is the gospel

Ironic^2

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#145

Post by SideburnsOfDoom »

bingohbangoh wrote: post #142
SideburnsOfDoom wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bubonic plague killed around a third of Europe (1) and upended the social order for generations (2). Up to 90% of Native Americans died from smallpox and other imported diseases (3) and it's clear that their societies were in fact overcome. They died a lot. To handwave "learn to live with" is naïve and facile. A virus can't care if we lose a double-digit percentage of population, but we're not choosing that cours…

COVID is not nearly as deadly and we know this after 18 months of living with it. Please stop comparing the two.

Your reply might be below the wrong comment? Grandparent post raised the topic.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#146

Post by tkzed49 »

oliv__ wrote: post #84

What I'm curious about is: what happens now? When everyone starts realizing that vaccines and masks can't fully contain a spread, what's the next logical step to take? Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear for the next 50 years or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world…

I'm tired of hearing "living in fear" equated with taking basic precautions to prevent the spread of disease, on HN of all places. It's just a dog whistle.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#147

Post by bsaul »

smt88 wrote: post #91
ncal wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You cannot say it has "no long-term side effects". also a new flu vaccine is developed every year because influenza viruses naturally mutate quickly, as do any viruses. Don't just write things that you wish were true.

> You cannot say it has "no long-term side effects" What are the long-term side effects of the vaccine? Or are you saying that you expect us to discover some in the future?

when planning on injecting a new type of product to 100% of a (healthy) population you better be sure about what you're doing...

Biology "certitude" is far from being as strong as a mathematical proof. Humans are different, and the complexity of interaction inside a single body are horribly complex.

I'm very surprised decades of science fiction litterature isn't enough to make people think twice.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#148

Post by Karrot_Kream »

_y5hn wrote: post #103
iammisc wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup... it's beeen 18 month. WE'd have been better off with a run a mile a day mandate than any of the lockdowns.

[flagged]

Not here. Diabetes and heart disease are both associated with worse outcomes for COVID. That said I don't think it's realistic to expect more than a few people try to become more fit to stave off COVID.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#149

Post by zpeti »

tkzed49 wrote: post #146
oliv__ wrote: post #84

What I'm curious about is: what happens now? When everyone starts realizing that vaccines and masks can't fully contain a spread, what's the next logical step to take? Are people going to insist that you keep wearing your mask, take booster shots and live in fear for the next 50 years or are we going to collectively change our mindset from "Zero COVID" to accepting that COVID is just another risk factor in the world…

I'm tired of hearing "living in fear" equated with taking basic precautions to prevent the spread of disease, on HN of all places. It's just a dog whistle.

I'm tired of hearing that masks don't have consequences and are just basic precautions.

I for one feel it massively reduces the quality of my interactions and trust in people. I find it much harder to communicate properly. The long term consequences of this are not taken into account.

And I'm vaccinated, everyone in my country who wants to be vaccinated is. Why should I reduce the quality of my life for people who made a choice and took a risk? I actually don't mind that they made this choice, it's their risk. But don't destroy my quality of life for people who knowingly are taking a risk on their end.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#150

Post by dragonwriter »

brodouevencode wrote: post #32
landemva wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I havent (needed) a flu shot in a couple decades. I'm not interested in yearly jabs. Better to lose the waist inches and high BMI. Few want the self-responsibility of healthy living. And I don't agree with headline of "grim", as it was obvious a year ago this was coming. Who lost any excess weight in the past year?

Not sure why you're getting downvoted. Comorbidity is a fundamental driving factor in whether or not you survive this virus. We've not heard any recommendations from any health agency suggesting a healthier lifestyle would help - it most certainly would statistically speaking. And 18 months in I doubt we'll see anything like that because it has proven to not be politically expedient. (FWIW Ive been intermittent fasti…

> We've not heard any recommendations from any health agency suggesting a healthier lifestyle would help - it most certainly would statistically speaking.

Would it? Do you have research on recent lifestyle changes and COVID?

Or are you just assuming that on-average stats relating to comorbities represent simple binary on-off switches?

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