Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

sciencemag.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 241 posts

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#71

Post by jdminhbg »

hcknwscommenter wrote: post #45
brodouevencode wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pretense all along as far as I can tell from most countries has been one of "zero COVID". Meaning a total removal/extermination of the virus. Whether or not this was ever realistic is really the underlying debate that hasn't yet fully surfaced.

Of course it was realistic. China basically achieved it (I am not a China fan or defender), but the rest of the world failed. The whole world achieved it for the first SARS. However, that ship sailed a long time ago. Probably before the first surge in Italy of COVID-19.

China didn’t really achieve Zero Covid if they exported it to the rest of the world. They may have stamped out some local outbreaks.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#72

Post by maxerickson »

criticaltinker wrote: post #67
maxerickson wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Delta variant emerged prior to widespread vaccination.

Yes the delta variant may have originated prior to widespread vaccination, but the dominance of the delta variant (and other VOCs) did coincide with mass vaccination campaigns. Please see the first source I cited if you're interested in these ideas and want to hear more straight from the experts: > "The spike protein receptor-binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2 is the molecular target for many vaccines and antibody-ba…

It would have spread even faster without vaccination (it is considerably more infectious than other prevalent variants).

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#73

Post by anyfoo »

jdhn wrote: post #5
anyfoo wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A less effective vaccination keeps COVID around longer and farther than a more effective one, though, giving the virus more time and population surface to mutate into further variants. (But still less than no vaccination.) I'm not an expert in this, so I cannot say how significant that issue is, but this is at least one potential downside that I am seeing to the vaccination being weaker for that variant. EDIT: To cla…

That's a fair critique. I feel like I've heard concerns about the potential for the virus to mutate because of the high level of vaccinations, but like you, I don't know how significant of an issue that is.

Just to clarify: That is not my concern.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#74

Post by dillondoyle »

criticaltinker wrote: post #52
danielodievich wrote: post #4

I am good friends with 3 doctors, and talk to them a lot about the amazing science behind the vaccines and the incredible speed with which those were designed and developed. All agree it was done at pretty much the software speed - custom designed on the computer in weeks and then built to order - and both them and I think it's pretty neat. It is very refreshing to talk to them because they, being good doctors, deal…

> all 3 of them told me to expect something like that - the virus mutates ... and the vaccines will likely be needing to adjust Your doctor friends were informing you about a phenomenon commonly referred to as "immune escape". The current mRNA based SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are effective at preventing severe outcomes like hospitalization and death. However, they do not necessarily prevent infection or transmission - and t…

So if I'm understanding you:

I am planning on taking my Governor's cheekily endorsed thumbs up to get a 3rd shot. I'm going to get JJ because it's not the same RNA spike target.

That's probably better than a 3rd RNA shot (no reformulated)?

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#75

Post by themaninthedark »

koolba wrote: post #22
jdhn wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Children (w/o vaccine) are dying of delta The number of children who are dying of covid has been ridiculously low for a virus that spreads so easily. Hasn't covid deaths for children under the age of 12 been under 1000 since the pandemic started?

It’s even lower if you factor in that the vast majority of those that died had existing underlying health issues. The level of social isolation the elderly have unilaterally imposed on the youth is a travesty.

It's not the elderly that have been imposing isolation, they have all been sent to long term care homes to die.

Our leaders however are not letting this crisis go to waste.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#76

Post by themaninthedark »

AndrewBissell wrote: post #63
pizza wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wuhan has been reopened for a long time now. We had every piece of information to make a good decision at the time in February 2020. Now we are thrashed about in a sea of half-measures, societal tension, and the total closing up of public life. We were so lost even by the time the CDC was encouraging people to not wear masks because it'll give you higher risk of contracting covid . Now our future's truly new.

Actually large sections of China are being locked back down again as they contend with new outbreaks. The whole concept of the Immaculate Covid Response has aged terribly as one "did it right" country after another either has had major outbreaks (Japan) or resorted to completely draconian and even militarized responses (Australia, NZ) to keep the spread down.

How is Taiwan doing?

Edit: Looks like they had a huge spike in May but are now around 7-day avg of 20 cases. With 7 day average of deaths around 2-3. Vax rate 1st - 40% 2nd 2.9%

Looks pretty good.

Sweden has a rolling 7 of 500 ~ 700. Rolling seven of deaths 0. Vax rate 1st 69.5% 2nd 59.2%

Interesting because they never locked down.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#77

Post by brodouevencode »

legerdemain wrote: post #66
brodouevencode wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pretense all along as far as I can tell from most countries has been one of "zero COVID". Meaning a total removal/extermination of the virus. Whether or not this was ever realistic is really the underlying debate that hasn't yet fully surfaced.

Europeans learned to live with the bubonic plague, which has never been eradicated, and Native Americans, over time, overcame the smallpox that was introduced among them. The people of today can do the same with Covid. It is the only way.

Agreed. Events like this should remind us to not be so arrogant.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#78

Post by criticaltinker »

dillondoyle wrote: post #74
criticaltinker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all 3 of them told me to expect something like that - the virus mutates ... and the vaccines will likely be needing to adjust Your doctor friends were informing you about a phenomenon commonly referred to as "immune escape". The current mRNA based SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are effective at preventing severe outcomes like hospitalization and death. However, they do not necessarily prevent infection or transmission - and t…

So if I'm understanding you: I am planning on taking my Governor's cheekily endorsed thumbs up to get a 3rd shot. I'm going to get JJ because it's not the same RNA spike target. That's probably better than a 3rd RNA shot (no reformulated)?

> That's probably better than a 3rd RNA shot

To be clear, right now there's no scientific literature that conclusively supports your suggestion here.

A better takeaway from my comment and OP would be that there is evidence we must diversify our viral elimination strategies at a population level.

It might actually be best to for you personally to stick with the same vaccines you had previously, but I'm going to stop there because you should consult your doctor for decisions like that.

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#79

Post by tguvot »

dillondoyle wrote: post #74
criticaltinker wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> all 3 of them told me to expect something like that - the virus mutates ... and the vaccines will likely be needing to adjust Your doctor friends were informing you about a phenomenon commonly referred to as "immune escape". The current mRNA based SARS-CoV-2 vaccines are effective at preventing severe outcomes like hospitalization and death. However, they do not necessarily prevent infection or transmission - and t…

So if I'm understanding you: I am planning on taking my Governor's cheekily endorsed thumbs up to get a 3rd shot. I'm going to get JJ because it's not the same RNA spike target. That's probably better than a 3rd RNA shot (no reformulated)?

moderna and pfizer are different. different enough for moderna to be more efficient with delta and pfizer more efficient with alfa

Re: Vaccination blunts, but does not defeat Delta

#80

Post by criticaltinker »

maxerickson wrote: post #72
criticaltinker wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the delta variant may have originated prior to widespread vaccination, but the dominance of the delta variant (and other VOCs) did coincide with mass vaccination campaigns. Please see the first source I cited if you're interested in these ideas and want to hear more straight from the experts: > "The spike protein receptor-binding domain (RBD) of SARS-CoV-2 is the molecular target for many vaccines and antibody-ba…

It would have spread even faster without vaccination (it is considerably more infectious than other prevalent variants).

To be clear, the primary suggestion put forth by my original comment is:

Strategies for viral elimination should therefore be diversified across molecular targets and therapeutic modalities

Put another way: vaccines are a powerful and useful tool that can help us mitigate the pandemic, but if used indiscriminately they may actually work against us, so we need to proceed with caution and also use other tools where possible.

Post reply on HN