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Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

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Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#171

Post by fungiblecog »

In my experience (mostly as a consultant to the public sector) all the (potential) productivity gains brought by software are eaten up by two things:

a) Layers of managers whose job appears to be to hold meetings to talk endlessly without ever making a decision or assigning an action, and

b) a complete failure of the same managers to understand how to use the software at their disposal to its fullest extend (eg no enforcement of data quality, no idea how to report useful metrics).

Both of these are the result of the people in positions of authority having no technical background or education and recruiting similar people. If they do think they need someone to analyse data they think that's a low-level position and hire based on a low-level salary with predictable results.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#172

Post by derefr »

hvs wrote: post #32
neogodless wrote: post #4

This article makes me think of the woodworker's dilemma. You might start working with cutting, planing, joining and finishing wood because you want to make a chair or end table, and you like the idea of learning to do it yourself, maybe saving some money, or at least getting some extra tools out of the process, and having some pride in your work. But before you know it, you've spent 4 years accumulating tools, but mo…

A few nits to pick as a woodworker: 1) You never save money building it yourself (at least not in comparison to a standard consumer option, like a chair or table from your local furniture store. This may hold up if you compare what you build to high-end hardwood furniture. But with the cost of tools, you're probably still losing money if this is just a hobby) 2) 90% of my enjoyment of woodworking is just being in my…

> But with the cost of tools, you're probably still losing money if this is just a hobby

What if you don't buy your own tools? Aren't there woodworking tools in maker-spaces?

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#173

Post by 908B64B197 »

swalsh wrote: post #51
zie wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't disagree it could definitely be a problem with the US, but so far, with immigration, it's not been a problem. As long as our immigration #'s stay up, the US should be fine. So far it's been a steady state, but it's unknown if that will continue into the future.

In the not too distant future, competition for immigration is going to be tough. I wonder if the US has the political atmosphere to offer competitive packages to win over the immigrants we'll need.

The real question is: is are we interested in quantity or quality?

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#174

Post by derefr »

PaulDavisThe1st wrote: post #166
jjk166 wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A carpenter charges like $50/hr. A tablesaw alone would likely set you back more than the labor for some simple shelves. Then they can get better deals on material, they do higher quality work, and they do all the parts that aren't fun, like cleaning up at the end. Also your time still has value even if you enjoy what you're doing. You could be doing other hobbies you enjoy more, or other aspects of the same hobby, o…

Over your lifetime, you might need 5 or 6 sets of shelves. Buy yourself a porta-tablesaw for about $400-$500 (or cheaper on craiglist etc), learn to use it, and chances are that somewhere in the middle of your life, the cost equation will have flipped in your favor.

That values storage costs at zero. Certainly not true if you live in a duplex, let alone an apartment!

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#175

Post by hampelm »

manachar wrote: post #131
hvs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few nits to pick as a woodworker: 1) You never save money building it yourself (at least not in comparison to a standard consumer option, like a chair or table from your local furniture store. This may hold up if you compare what you build to high-end hardwood furniture. But with the cost of tools, you're probably still losing money if this is just a hobby) 2) 90% of my enjoyment of woodworking is just being in my…

There's something amazing/odd/horrifying about a world where it is generally no longer cheaper to do anything yourself. I love to bake and cook. I can do so fairly frugally. A supermarket frozen pie is still gonna be cheaper than anything I can make, especially if I count my time. It's a benefit and goal of the modern global industrialized supply chain, but I cannot help feel that making me work a full time job to bu…

I agree with almost everything you have above except "a supermarket frozen pie is still gonna be cheaper than anything I can make." I'd say youd buy the same pie at a store (or at least not at most stores). The ingredients list might be the same, but somehow the gloppy, starched-gel filling in a mushy crust you can buy from Kroger is (hopefully) pretty far from any pie you'd make by hand yourself.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#176

Post by qwerty456127 »

crazygringo wrote: post #119
qwerty456127 wrote: post #70

Perhaps because mainstream software of today doesn't add much to what we had in 199x. There already were the same Word, Excel and e-mail those days - . (and I doubt live chats we have today can add much to productivity, well-thought and well-organized emails are better). It can be possible to boost productivity with something like Roam Research (especially used in collaborative mode) but it would require a lot of enh…

I disagree completely. I'm insanely more productive as part of a team than I was in 199x. Not even talking about things for software development specifically, but for general-purpose word-processing and spreadsheeting and scheduling, you've got: - Live collaborative cloud editing over mobile. The back-and-forth that previously might take a week can now be done in half an hour while you're in the back of an Uber in a…

> Not even talking about things for software development specifically

In 199x we had straightforward visual RAD IDEs like Delphi and C++ builder. IMHO this was the pinnacle of apps development productivity, what have now (Electron + a soup of web front-end frameworks) is nightmare, postapocalyptic chaos following the golden age.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#177

Post by wott »

xmprt wrote: post #148
manachar wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's something amazing/odd/horrifying about a world where it is generally no longer cheaper to do anything yourself. I love to bake and cook. I can do so fairly frugally. A supermarket frozen pie is still gonna be cheaper than anything I can make, especially if I count my time. It's a benefit and goal of the modern global industrialized supply chain, but I cannot help feel that making me work a full time job to bu…

I think what you're worried about is the death of ownership and how people are increasingly starting to either sell their information or rent the things they need. Being able to buy things for cheaper from elsewhere is just specialization and it's one of the first things that brought humans from the store age to more modern civilization.

> it's one of the first things that brought humans from the store age to more modern civilization.

This still has to happen, since we are now entirely in the store age ;-)

(nice typo)

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#178

Post by cactus2093 »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #145

I am writing a book covering a lot of this ground (shout out to Roald Coase) - but I have a different (ish) conclusion. It's not going to be a few "software-friendly" companies like FAANG that eventually lead the charge and we see productivity - it's waaay longer term than that. My take is software is a form of literacy - and it will only be when managers code daily that we will see enough of the control layers (mode…

> when managers code daily

No offense but this doesn't sound like a well thought out idea. Have you worked at a tech company as either a coder or a manager?

Why should managers code daily? What would they be coding up anyway? If you're saying they should be coding features in the product, then I think you're just saying there should be no middle managers. That's been tried a lot in many different forms over the years, and there's a reason the majority of successful tech companies still have managers.

If you're saying that managers should be coding the tools that they use themselves for managing their employees - why? Their job is talking to the people they manage, listening to them, helping to solve problems, helping to make trade-offs to deliver the product on time, coordinating with other people in the company to keep things running smoothly on their team, etc. If you have a problem that does require a technology solution, like keeping track of tasks or automating some part of the team's work, then it will be orders of magnitude more effective to buy a solution that already exists or hire a team of coders to build it rather than have each individual manager trying to code up solutions themselves. That would be a big distraction from their main job of actually managing their team. Until you can automate the whole job of a manager with an AI, the important parts of the job are just not things that you can easily code up a solution to.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#179

Post by WalterBright »

mdoms wrote: post #168
WalterBright wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I built my dream workbench. The commercial ones were too light. I wanted one that was 8 feet long, and 4 deep, that I could bolt a big vise to, and whale away at whatever was in the vise without the bench scittering across the floor. It is build entirely from 4x4s for the legs, 2x4s for the rest of the frame, and 1x8 planks for the top and shelf. It's all held together with carriage bolts so it can be disassembled, a…

The benchtop is only 1 inch thick? That's not a heavy duty bench. My kitchen has thicker benchtops.

Your kitchen top is likely glued sawdust.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#180

Post by [deleted] »

manachar wrote: post #131
hvs wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few nits to pick as a woodworker: 1) You never save money building it yourself (at least not in comparison to a standard consumer option, like a chair or table from your local furniture store. This may hold up if you compare what you build to high-end hardwood furniture. But with the cost of tools, you're probably still losing money if this is just a hobby) 2) 90% of my enjoyment of woodworking is just being in my…

There's something amazing/odd/horrifying about a world where it is generally no longer cheaper to do anything yourself. I love to bake and cook. I can do so fairly frugally. A supermarket frozen pie is still gonna be cheaper than anything I can make, especially if I count my time. It's a benefit and goal of the modern global industrialized supply chain, but I cannot help feel that making me work a full time job to bu…

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