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Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

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Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#291

Post by saxonww »

dellcybpwr wrote: post #278
hamburgerwah wrote: post #269

One other thing people may not realize. If you use your credit card at a merchant online or in person and you associate any information such as a telephone number or email with that card. Any time you use that card, online or off, to make a purchase with that merchant those transactions can be tied together regardless of whether you provide your email/phone on future transactions. Large vendors such as walmart etc no…

okay... i'll bite: how does one use a card online without providing phone or email?

I don't know if this actually makes things better or worse - I do it in the hope I can shut down spam by removing a compromised address - but I try very hard to use a different email address for every business I purchase from.

You don't always have to provide a phone number, either. Most of the time yes, but I don't think the phone number is actually required to complete a credit card transaction.

There also used to be credit providers - maybe there still are? - that would let you generate a new card number for each purchase. That too may accomplish nothing from a tracking perspective, since the credit provider would be able to match up all the numbers. But, if I had that capability, I would use it.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#292

Post by rebeccaskinner »

oramit wrote: post #169
reedjosh wrote: post #131

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

In many ways it’s a prisoners dilemma problem. We can contrive many particular cases where your individual data might put you at risk, but the fundamental problem is that broadly having access to many people’s data allows the people who hold that data to do analysis on it and to have enormous levels of control over the population because they can carefully tune their actions and messaging based on that data.

Ultimately your individual data is far less important than the aggregate data for making these decisions- and you are impacted regardless of whether your personal data is available or not.

The question is whether or not we could get people to collectively act in their own self interest and push back against data collection. Based on what we’ve seen over the last 2 years with the pandemic I have absolutely no hope for humanity ever being able to collectively act in its self interest and the road to hell will be paved with people asking “how does it hurt me, personally, right now”.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#293

Post by oramit »

ifyoubuildit wrote: post #241
oramit wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

Others have mentioned specific reasons, but another aspect to consider is that once you've given up any kind of data, it's out of your hands. Maybe you can't think of a reason why that's bad today, but will that be true tomorrow, or next year? By making the decision that it's fine today, you're also deciding that it's always going to be fine in the future.

This doesn't strike me as a very strong argument. If i'm understanding correctly: I shouldn't share that I do X because in the future X might come under scrutiny.

This sort of argument can be deployed to stop you from doing anything. It's also very apocalyptic because you are only assuming downsides. What happens if sharing X actually helps me in the future?

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#294

Post by gauravjain13 »

legerdemain wrote: post #274
hamburgerwah wrote: post #269

One other thing people may not realize. If you use your credit card at a merchant online or in person and you associate any information such as a telephone number or email with that card. Any time you use that card, online or off, to make a purchase with that merchant those transactions can be tied together regardless of whether you provide your email/phone on future transactions. Large vendors such as walmart etc no…

Then why does it take the sales person at Macy's 15 minutes to look up my order before giving up and just giving me a refund for a poorly fitting sweater I brought back?

WAI. They recognized you, and wanted to you spend more time in the store. /s

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#295

Post by 6510 »

oramit wrote: post #169
reedjosh wrote: post #131

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

People will judge you using anything they can get their hands on. Looking at your nutritional choices I might think you are not investment material, worth hiring, worth giving a lone to. But then I can also use it to judge your friends, relatives and your great great great grandchildren.

You might have friends over every weekend but those 4 crates of beer also put you on the alcoholics list. +1 alcoholics for your contact list. And you purchased helium for that kids party. A pack of smokes for the gardener per week. You look 62% like a person on the crack cocaine list and 59% like a regular weed customer. Those are over 50% are they not? Seems good enough to use.

Eventually you get to the "people who are not racists but are unsure if their clients are - so you are not hired" kind of situation. How many alcoholics who suck helium, do crack and smoke pot can you "seriously" have in your network?

These are most likely stupid examples but that makes them good. We have no idea how the data will be used when combined with other data. Someone will think of something way more stupid.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#296

Post by tomc1985 »

oramit wrote: post #169
reedjosh wrote: post #131

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

I want full control of data being collected on me, period. I don't care if someone patronizingly thinks it will "help" me. That is not their decision, it is mine.

If someone's making money off my back they better give me a cut, and a big one. 50c off a bag of grapes doesn't cut it.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#297

Post by hexa22 »

saxonww wrote: post #291
dellcybpwr wrote: post #278

Earlier quoted context omitted.

okay... i'll bite: how does one use a card online without providing phone or email?

I don't know if this actually makes things better or worse - I do it in the hope I can shut down spam by removing a compromised address - but I try very hard to use a different email address for every business I purchase from. You don't always have to provide a phone number, either. Most of the time yes, but I don't think the phone number is actually required to complete a credit card transaction. There also used to…

I have once had a phone call about an online purchase telling me I had to pay extra taxes for the import.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#298

Post by kube-system »

rootusrootus wrote: post #181
cronix wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. Right, but most still pay with a credit/debit card when checking out which gives the cc/bank the same info. At least with a store club card they only know what you purchase in that store/chain, instead of every store.

I'm guessing this is why many grocery stores don't allow NFC payments, except for (in my area at least) Safeway, whose non-club pricing is so punitive that most people just knuckle under and get the card. Though I just use 867-5309 anyway. Works in every area code, AFAICT.

I was at a self-checkout recently that required a store rewards membership to checkout at. I tried 867-5309 but form validation required both a phone number and a last name.

I guess retailers are catching on.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#299

Post by kube-system »

oramit wrote: post #273
boatsie wrote: post #243

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder this too, but perhaps your insurance company buys this data on you and says, oh, they drink sugary drinks and eat candy and chips. They are buying Tylenol and ibuprofen for chronic pain. Maybe they will get diabetes and we should raise their premiums accordingly.

I don't mean to rag on you in particular. The answers I get around privacy problems are always conjecture. "Perhaps" the insurance company will do x, "Maybe" they will do y. It's always some scary threat that could happen in the future. The problem is though that the powers that be (government/corporate) already have more private information than ever before and yet: nothing has happened. At what point do these warni…

The data is already being used in various ways that people would object to, it's just that nobody who is using data in objectionable ways is announcing it from their rooftops, because they know it's objectionable and want to keep doing it.
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