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U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

reuters.com

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Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#331

Post by kube-system »

There are a lot of good points here in the comments already about the relative safety of Tesla's system compared to other vehicles and other automated driving system -- and I think they're probably right.

The differentiating issue with Tesla's system is the way it is sold and marketed. Important operational safety information shouldn't be hidden in fine print. Subtly misleading marketing has unfortunately become acceptable in our culture, but this idea needs to stay out of safety-critical systems.

We need a mandate for clear and standardized labelling for these features, à la the Monroney sticker. All manufacturers should have to label and market their cars with something like SAE J3016. https://www.sae.org/binaries/content/gallery/cm/articles/pre...

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#332

Post by ghaff »

minhazm wrote: post #266
ghaff wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe a fairly small sample size but I don't know the last time I've been in a car where the driver has turned on cruise control. But it probably varies by area of the country. In the Northeast, there's just enough traffic in general that it's not worth it for me.

In traffic is where traffic aware cruise control is most useful. A lot of people I knew who bought Tesla's in the bay area specifically bought it so their commutes would be less stressful with the bumper to bumper traffic. I drove 3000+ miles across the country last year with > 90% of it on AP and I was way less tired with AP on vs off and it allowed me to just stay focused on the road and look out for any issues.

Yes. I was (explicitly) talking about traditional "dumb" cruise control. I haven't used adaptive cruise control but I agree it sounds more useful than traditional cruise control once you get above minimal traffic.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#333

Post by barbazoo »

xsznix wrote: post #306
barbazoo wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Risk compensation is fascinating; driving with a bike helmet causes the biker and drivers around the biker to behave more dangerously. Source please

Here you go: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S00014... https://psyarxiv.com/nxw2k

I cannot open the study in the first link but the second on seems to actually refute the claim instead of supporting it.

> There is a body of research on how driver behaviour might change in response to bicyclists’ appearance. In 2007, Walker published a study suggesting motorists drove closer on average when passing a bicyclist if the rider wore a helmet, potentially increasing the risk of a collision. Olivier and Walter re-analysed the same data in 2013 and claimed helmet wearing was not associated with close vehicle passing.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#334

Post by jedberg »

birken wrote: post #304
tomdell wrote: post #285

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would argue that partial self driving is an irresponsible product not because it's impossible to drive safely with it, but because so many people will use it as an excuse to pay little to no attention to the road. If you personally are a responsible driver and even a better driver with it, that's great - but most people probably aren't going to use it the same way, especially those without much of an understanding…

Absolutely not true as a blanket statement. Maybe if the driver monitoring is so lax that you could conceivably trick the car into poorly driving itself, but the system I use, Comma [1], has incredibly strict driver monitoring. There is absolutely no doubt I'm a safer driver with Comma than without it. I'm still in control, but Comma not only allows me to expend less effort driving (which allows me to stay alert over…

I use the same system as you do, and I've noticed that if you mention that system's name, you tend to get downvotes. I haven't yet figured out why, not sure if there is a bot or just a lot of Tesla fans who downvote the mention of our system.

Edit: After one minute I got a downvote.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#335

Post by jedberg »

hellbannedguy wrote: post #307
jedberg wrote: post #276

A lot of people in here saying it is not possible to drive safely with partial self driving. I wonder, how many of those people have actually driven a car with autopilot? I have autopilot on my car, and it definitely makes me a better and safer driver. It maintains my distance from the car in front and my speed while keeping me in my lane, so my brain no longer has to worry about those mundane things. Instead I can s…

There's not a small part of your psyche that tells you it's ok to drive while tired, or all the way home from that Las Vegas trip because the technology is so good?

The thing is, I get a lot less tired when I'm driving now, because I get to focus only on the novel stimulus (possible emergencies) and not the mundane.

But no, I don't trust it to drive itself. If I'm tired I won't drive, regardless of autopilot.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#336

Post by e40 »

jedberg wrote: post #276

A lot of people in here saying it is not possible to drive safely with partial self driving. I wonder, how many of those people have actually driven a car with autopilot? I have autopilot on my car, and it definitely makes me a better and safer driver. It maintains my distance from the car in front and my speed while keeping me in my lane, so my brain no longer has to worry about those mundane things. Instead I can s…

For you, definitely. For the people I see reading while the car drives them, not at all.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#337

Post by sandworm101 »

peeters wrote: post #202
sandworm101 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is a lane change without signal always illegal? I know that it almost certainly make you liable for any resulting accident, but I'm not sure that it is universally illegal.

This is technically true in Ontario (TIL). > 142 (1) The driver or operator of a vehicle upon a highway before turning (...) from one lane for traffic to another lane for traffic (...) shall first see that the movement can be made in safety, and if the operation of any other vehicle may be affected by the movement shall give a signal plainly visible to the driver or operator of the other vehicle of the intention to m…

That's the sort of law I remember. It is considered a failure to communicate your intention rather than a violation per se in every circumstance.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#338

Post by jedberg »

MisterTea wrote: post #319
jedberg wrote: post #276

A lot of people in here saying it is not possible to drive safely with partial self driving. I wonder, how many of those people have actually driven a car with autopilot? I have autopilot on my car, and it definitely makes me a better and safer driver. It maintains my distance from the car in front and my speed while keeping me in my lane, so my brain no longer has to worry about those mundane things. Instead I can s…

> "* It maintains my distance from the car in front and my speed while keeping me in my lane, so my brain no longer has to worry about those mundane things.*" Ive been driving for 25 years, cars, trucks, trailers, standard and auto transmissions, and I have never once thought to myself "I'd be such a better diver if I didn't have to pay attention to my speed, lane keeping or following distance" Why? Because those mun…

I've been driving for 29 years, and I never thought those things either until I got autopilot (and I don't have a Tesla BTW, I have a different autopilot system). While those things were autopilot in my brain, they still took brain power. It's so much more relaxing not worrying about those things.

It's like people who do math by hand and then get a calculator.

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#339

Post by spywaregorilla »

MisterTea wrote: post #319
jedberg wrote: post #276

A lot of people in here saying it is not possible to drive safely with partial self driving. I wonder, how many of those people have actually driven a car with autopilot? I have autopilot on my car, and it definitely makes me a better and safer driver. It maintains my distance from the car in front and my speed while keeping me in my lane, so my brain no longer has to worry about those mundane things. Instead I can s…

> "* It maintains my distance from the car in front and my speed while keeping me in my lane, so my brain no longer has to worry about those mundane things.*" Ive been driving for 25 years, cars, trucks, trailers, standard and auto transmissions, and I have never once thought to myself "I'd be such a better diver if I didn't have to pay attention to my speed, lane keeping or following distance" Why? Because those mun…

Maybe you're a great driver then. Have you ever shared the road with someone who was a terrible driver?

Re: U.S. opens probe into Tesla’s Autopilot over emergency vehicle crashes

#340

Post by qweqwweqwe-90i »

Animats wrote: post #302

Right. As I've pointed out previously, Tesla seems to be unable to detect sizable stationary obstacles that are partly blocking a lane, especially if they don't look like the rear end of a car. In addition to emergency vehicles, Teslas on autopilot have plowed into freeway barriers and a street sweeper. That's the usual situation for first responders, who usually try to block as little of the road as possible but oft…

Yeah, let's ignore all the good and force everyone to go back to human drivers that are 10x worse.
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