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On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

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Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#101
post #38

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

Because the President of the United States is a preposterously entitled individual, and Nixon is one of the few that got caught while probing the limits of that entitlement.

Arguing that something is plausible is not the same as arguing that something happened.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#102
post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The guy spelled his name wrong- it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know something weird is going on.

As someone whose name looks like a misspelled English version of the name, I think you're jumping to conclusions there.

Jumping to conclusions is the name of the game when you're giving your the keys to your apartment to a stranger for a week.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#103
I love what AirBnB is doing - and I know they'll pull through this. But there's one policy of theirs that just needs to change: Stop penalizing hosts for declining reservations

My wife and I used AirBnB to rent out our place in San Francisco very early on in the life of AirBnB. At one point we'd booked about 60 reservations and were making a killing. It was simply wonderful having the freedom of place that AirBnB afforded us. Trip to Hawaii for the weekend? Our rental earnings for just the weekend easily paid off the flight.

We stopped using AirBnB (and renting out our place in general) for a variety of reasons, but the primary reason was safety. We were finding that 9 of 10 reservation requests were from people without AirBnB ratings nor profiles, but the moment you decline a reservation, for any reason (even if you know the person isn't legit), your search ranking drops considerably.

The way AirBnB determines your search ranking for a particular area is directly related to how many successful bookings you've had over a trailing 60 days. This is why the top 50 places in SF right now on AirBnB are "full time" or professionally-managed rentals, and not normal people just renting on the weekends. At one point we were renting out our place consistently almost every weekend, and because airbnb's search interface is so poor, making it into the top 20 for an area resulted in a twentyfold increase in reservations.

The problem then becomes, as a host - do I decline reservations from people I know nothing about and take a rating hit that may prevent me from renting again, or, do I accept the reservation and "trust in humankind" that everything will be ok?

We obviously took the latter road, and for the most part had great interactions with the people we met. However, after a couple of "close calls" - an elderly couple who almost burned our place down and an obviously high-functioning crazy person, we decided that it wasn't worth the risk anymore.

I really want AirBnB to work - and I understand why they maintain this policy of penalizing you for not being generally available, but in light of the recent incident, I hope they rethink it and help promote "real" hosts who don't do this as a business.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#104
post #73

AirBNB has a huge asymmetric trust problem. The hosts have real physical addresses and need to be able to take a payment. Hosts can easily be held accountable. The guests on the other hand could be anyone. The company's attitude seems to be that allowing the host to interview the guest over email is sufficient to vet the guest. That's absurd. I don't have any special ability to identify a con artist vs. an honest per…

I was with you until your final paragraph, which seems to me only to address payment problems by making payment and planning more difficult, without actually addressing the asymmetric trust or renter-vetting problems. The renter-vetting problem is a real one. A past history of good experiences at AirBNB would probably be a good mechanism - a new member of the community would then be scrutinized a little more closely.…

I propose it because it would help to ensure that the credit card wasn't stolen (because the cardholder would spot the charge before the guest arrived). If you can ensure that the card isn't stolen, then AirBNB has a way to track down criminal guests, which makes it less likely criminals would see this as an exploitable system.

Yes, it's a pain, hopefully they can come up with something better. But they seem to be ignoring the problem of effectively anonymous guests.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#105
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, yeah, my experience as a landlord makes me a fantastic tenant. Last place I rented before buying the current house, I was working on fixing the roof in my spare time - mostly because I really like to be fixing houses in my spare time anyway and, as we were in Puerto Rico, the roof was concrete and thus a really new and fun experience. All it takes is just a teeny bit of responsibility. Landlording somehow filters…

I've heard similar horror stories from friends who rent places out, however it does cut both ways - for myself, despite going absolutely out of my way to be a good tenant, I have had landlords try to rip me off (several times), scream at me because I dared remind them that it'd been > 6 weeks since I'd asked them to look at the faulty gas boiler (!), etc. I think some landlords need to learn to appreciate good tenant…

Oh, absolutely. But remember - a lot of landlords aren't very good at it. God knows I wasn't. If they don't have a property manager, your boiler being out is just one more thing they have to remember, and can't, because they're just trying to make a little extra cash on a house they maybe can't sell - or somebody told them rental management is easy, when it's not. They may be working a regular job and simply can't get the focus for your issues. It sucks, but it happens a lot.

In situations like that, I usually send them a letter or call them, explaining that I know exactly what they're going through, and I'd be happy to arrange maintenance for them as long as they reimburse me. I've never failed to get a response of, "Oh God, could you please?"

Depends on the landlord, too. If you live in a low-rent building, they have a really high stress level for not a lot of return - it doesn't take much to set yourself apart from the jerks they normally deal with, though. Get on a friendly basis with them and it'll go a long way.

Once you've had a couple of the really bad tenants, I think it's very, very difficult to learn to see the good in people again as opposed to the enormous risk exposure.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was recently talking to the home owner for the property I am renting and they told me that out of everyone they are renting to I along with my room mates are the most patient and most caring and following up than any of their other tenants. I actually care about the property, I talk to them when something happens, I follow up and make sure work gets done that is supposed to be done. The homeowner was telling me abo…

While renting an apartment the dishwasher broke and I offered to install the new one. The landlord turned me down and scheduled it for a time I had to be at work and took the opportunity to snoop around and accuse me of harboring a child that I had not told him about (in reality, my niece would visit a lot so we had a bunch of toys for her). He withheld the entire security deposit on those grounds. So it cuts both wa…

What an asshole. I've never had anything like that in my stints in the tenant role. But honestly, that just sounds like he wanted to look for reasons to keep the security deposit and nothing you had done would have changed that.

Good on you for winning.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#107
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've heard similar horror stories from friends who rent places out, however it does cut both ways - for myself, despite going absolutely out of my way to be a good tenant, I have had landlords try to rip me off (several times), scream at me because I dared remind them that it'd been > 6 weeks since I'd asked them to look at the faulty gas boiler (!), etc. I think some landlords need to learn to appreciate good tenant…

Oh, absolutely. But remember - a lot of landlords aren't very good at it. God knows I wasn't. If they don't have a property manager, your boiler being out is just one more thing they have to remember, and can't, because they're just trying to make a little extra cash on a house they maybe can't sell - or somebody told them rental management is easy, when it's not. They may be working a regular job and simply can't ge…

You sound like a great landlord, to me it really comes down to whether they are actively acting maliciously, for example the landlords who screwed me out my deposit were clearly trying to steal the cash - one when I was at uni made up loads of costs despite us having spent a day cleaning, painting and getting the place spotless, another kept on promising to pay but then suddenly dropped all contact, in the end I had to threaten legal action (after a couple months).

> Once you've had a couple of the really bad tenants, I think it's very, very difficult to learn to see the good in people again as opposed to the enormous risk exposure.

Absolutely, I can understand that - sorry to hear you've experienced that. Seems unfortunately quite common. Who are these people?!!

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#108
post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Oh, absolutely. But remember - a lot of landlords aren't very good at it. God knows I wasn't. If they don't have a property manager, your boiler being out is just one more thing they have to remember, and can't, because they're just trying to make a little extra cash on a house they maybe can't sell - or somebody told them rental management is easy, when it's not. They may be working a regular job and simply can't ge…

You sound like a great landlord, to me it really comes down to whether they are actively acting maliciously, for example the landlords who screwed me out my deposit were clearly trying to steal the cash - one when I was at uni made up loads of costs despite us having spent a day cleaning, painting and getting the place spotless, another kept on promising to pay but then suddenly dropped all contact, in the end I had…

Trust me, anybody who's rented to more than a couple of people has experienced it. Anybody I've talked to, anyway.

As to who these people are: it's a mixed bag. I keep wanting to write some kind of tl;dr screed here, but ... it's complicated.

I'll say this, though. I went to school with a guy whose dad was the manager for an American-owned automotive plant in Spain. They lived in a freaking mansion in Cadiz, although they were basically regular people from Cleveland or Akron or someplace. But he basically grew up a lot richer than me (and considered me bourgeois, but damn we were young and foolish).

He told me the story once about how he'd been depressed and visited a friend of his who was housesitting for their teacher at the American school there. I.e. another rich kid. So what this friend did to cheer him up, among other things, was to set up a target and throw knives at it. Except instead of knives, they destroyed every pair of scissors in the house and used the halves as throwing knives, you see. He laughed about how the teacher must have been perplexed about having no scissors when he got back from his trip.

I'm sure that he'd be mortified to know that I remember this story twenty years later, which is why I'm not naming names (yes, Mr. Google, I'm watching you!)

OK. So extrapolate that rich kid's behavior - and this was a good guy who I really liked - to our original post here. It's the same thing, just a lot more extreme. There are just people who think that kind of exploitation of the vulnerability of others is funny and fun, although I'm sure the vast majority grow out of it at some point.

It's kind of like sociopaths, I guess, as abused as that concept has gotten lately. I think there are those of us who would never have considered finding all the scissors in the house they were entrusted with, and tearing them in half for knife throwing. I'm one of those people. You probably are. And sadly, AirBNB is probably made up exclusively of that category of people. And probably the vast majority of users of AirBNB also fall into this category.

Now, one didn't. Honestly - I think the only way AirBNB is going to weather this is to have some serious, serious talks with an insurance provider and have some kind of blanket coverage they can extend to their hosts, perhaps with an additional fee - but they're not going to get through it with just being nice guys. Which arguably they are.

So that was really more than I intended to write. Sorry.

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#109
post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You sound like a great landlord, to me it really comes down to whether they are actively acting maliciously, for example the landlords who screwed me out my deposit were clearly trying to steal the cash - one when I was at uni made up loads of costs despite us having spent a day cleaning, painting and getting the place spotless, another kept on promising to pay but then suddenly dropped all contact, in the end I had…

Trust me, anybody who's rented to more than a couple of people has experienced it. Anybody I've talked to, anyway. As to who these people are: it's a mixed bag. I keep wanting to write some kind of tl;dr screed here, but ... it's complicated. I'll say this, though. I went to school with a guy whose dad was the manager for an American-owned automotive plant in Spain. They lived in a freaking mansion in Cadiz, although…

In light of today's developments, I no longer think they're nice guys. (http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=2820615)

Re: On Safety: A Word From Airbnb

#110
post #38

I can't stop thinking that this was a top-secret hit job by some shady character working for the hotel industry looking to derail AirBnB's next fund-raising round. Heck, if Nixon could do it, why couldn't The American Hotel & Lodging Association? So my question to you is: am I quite paranoid or merely rather paranoid?

Just because you're paranoid it doesn't they're not after you.
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