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Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

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Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#211
post #193

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

This may actually close the class divide a little. The thing with privacy is the more wealthy you are, the more valuable it is. For example, if I want to sell something, I will want to target the wealthiest first. Same thing for scammers, and newspapers will follow celebrities. Who care about the poor, there is no money to extract from them. So let's get back to the private shopper. A rich and famous man will want to…

> The one who can afford not to use loyalty card will earn the shop more profit (because no discount), meaning that it can offer bigger discounts to others.

I don't use loyalty cards, but I don't pay more because of it. There still exist stores that don't have them, and my observation is that the regular prices on those stores are about the same as the "loyalty card discount" price at other stores.

The "discount" you're getting with a loyalty card is a sham. The regular prices were just bumped up to give the illusion of a discount.

More to the point, though, the issue I see with your analysis is that you're assuming that privacy has a single value. My privacy is worth just as much to me as a wealthy person's privacy is to them. That others value them differently is unimportant. The cost of the loss of that privacy is the same regardless of income, but only the wealthy have a way to minimize that loss without going to extreme measures.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#212
post #193

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

This may actually close the class divide a little. The thing with privacy is the more wealthy you are, the more valuable it is. For example, if I want to sell something, I will want to target the wealthiest first. Same thing for scammers, and newspapers will follow celebrities. Who care about the poor, there is no money to extract from them. So let's get back to the private shopper. A rich and famous man will want to…

> Who care about the poor, there is no money to extract from them.

There is plenty, just ask all the MLM companies, dollar stores, and payday lenders

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#213
post #169

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

Purchasing history is some of the most personal and sensitive data there is about you. It can reveal nearly everything.

But, ignoring that, there's a very good reason why you might want to keep as much data out of the machine as possible -- even data that, on its own, is of no importance. That reason is databases. The data you provide to any business will be combined with the data you've provided everywhere else. All of those items that on their own are of no importance become incredibly intrusive and privacy-destroying when combined with each other.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#214
post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I care to keep what I buy at the grocery store private? I'm not trying to be flippant with this question. I'm just honestly perplexed why this is an important dateset to keep private. Also, why would I want to avoid discounts? Grocery stores are one of the few places that gives me money for handing them my data. Isn't this good behavior!?

What you buy at a grocery store can reveal a lot about you: - Personal care products: gender - Medications: age/health of you and family members - Magazines/media: political affiliation, social class The list goes on. [Edit: formatting]

I guess this is an answer to the question but it doesn't answer the motivation behind the question. Why should we care about these things being public? You can tell my gender and rough age by looking at me for a second. If you want to keep those private your grocery store is the least of your concerns.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#215
post #55

Kroger has felt especially intrusive for a couple of decades; it's almost as though they're going out of their way to be manipulative and creepy, right from the store layout where Pepsi is $87.00 at your feet and Coke is $0.75 at eye level, down to the personalized coupons they send you in the mail. But the big stores that don't have loyalty cards are still slurping up data; they just get it from your credit card and…

> But the big stores that don't have loyalty cards are still slurping up data; they just get it from your credit card and their cameras.

True. If you're paying with a card, you might as well use the loyalty program as well.

And be sure to put your cellphone in airplane mode before you get to the store.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What you buy at a grocery store can reveal a lot about you: - Personal care products: gender - Medications: age/health of you and family members - Magazines/media: political affiliation, social class The list goes on. [Edit: formatting]

This always reminds me of the anecdote of Target predicting pregnant customers and "outing" them before they or their family knows [1]. Really makes one consider using cash. [1] https://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/19/magazine/shopping-habits....

>before they or their family knows

To be clear, it is before their family knows and not before they know. It is extremely difficult to figure out someone is pregnant before they know. It doesn't take any complex analysis to see someone purchasing prenatal vitamins and conclude they are pregnant.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#217

This to me is part of a general trend wherein only those with the awareness and resources required will have privacy. For example, if you do have the funds, send a private shopper. But an even more direct example is skipping the discounts associated with club cards for privacy reasons. This will further entrench the class divide between the wealthy and the rest of us.

The industrial revolution divided the world into those who had capital (owned factories, tools, land, etc.) and those who produced labor (worked in the factories, used the tools, worked the land, etc.). Those on the side of labor couldn't provide value without access to capital where it could be used. Conversely, those with capital need labor to extract value from it. The factories don't run themselves. In theory, th…

The division happened when transitioning from hunter gatherers (which didn't need possessions, just hard work) to agriculture, where land became a prized possession.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#218

The October before covid me and Mrs. Asciimov went on a cruse with Royal Caribbean. We got dropped off at the port, put our luggage in the loading area, and proceeded to walk inside, all without talking to anyone. Not 30 seconds after walking into the Port Building, a RCL rep walked up and greeted me and the mrs by first name. Said please walk this way, I have you all checked in, you just need to go through the retur…

That would be the last time I went on an RCL cruise.

But the point is it would be too late, right? So at that point, might as well keep taking cruises if you want to.

When the discussion is Albertsons is scanning your face - I’m not sure it’s practical to think it’s avoidable anymore.

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why so much respect for someone just because they're a business owner? Sounds more like someone liked surveillance but got shaken up by sousveillance.

I would mention it if they were his neighbor or a cab driver as well. It's not a matter of respect, but this person simply installed a security system for their safety. They're obviously not extremely technical. They're just trying to go about their day, serve their customers and make a living, and go home. My point in that wording is that it's some random local person in the community, not the head of the NSA's PRIS…

ok we have to close this thread but I will say that a) you have several assumptions there that I know are not this case b) I own my actions and I repeat it here for the group c) many systems of law are changed over time; the law has not caught up to the tech, and it is up to people in daylight to make the world, not backroom deals or secret profiles. I will stick with that one - this is a Daylight Action if you see what I mean

Re: Many Americans not aware of being tracked with facial recognition while shopping

#220
post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They raise prices, then give you a “discount.”

I feel like this misunderstands sales and discounting systems. Because it's a snappy line which is technically true but the long answer is way weirder. I'm just gonna use Kroger as an example because they use "club pricing", rotating club pricing, actual sales, "manager specials", and closeout sales. - Everything by default is priced at MSRP, that's the price on the white price tags or the yellow price tags that don'…

All that is true, but none of it is a counterargument to "They raise prices, then give you a “discount.”"
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