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Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

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Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#11

Post by tonydev »

dmbass wrote: post #5

...the argument that the redesign’s author makes is not quite so persuasive, mostly because it makes some rash assumptions, misses some critical realities and, perhaps worse of all, takes a somewhat inflammatory approach in criticizing the many people who work on the original site. This guy sounds like the redesigner really hurt his feelings. Why not share the design constraints that the redesigner failed to consider…

It's fairly plain to see that the "redesign" completely disregards any presence of advertisement. I'd say that would be a constraint failed to be considered.

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#12

Post by WeAreKnights »

Based on the timing, I believe he's talking about the redesign exercise Andy Rutledge did @ http://andyrutledge.com/news-redux.php

Khoi Vinh is being a poor sport here. Criticism is an important part of the design world. In school we're taught to use criticism as another resource and learn from it. The design team at the New York Times could have learned a lot from this 'unsolicited' exercise. Instead, they chose to be offended.

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#13

Post by dmbass »

tonydev wrote: post #11
dmbass wrote: post #5

...the argument that the redesign’s author makes is not quite so persuasive, mostly because it makes some rash assumptions, misses some critical realities and, perhaps worse of all, takes a somewhat inflammatory approach in criticizing the many people who work on the original site. This guy sounds like the redesigner really hurt his feelings. Why not share the design constraints that the redesigner failed to consider…

It's fairly plain to see that the "redesign" completely disregards any presence of advertisement. I'd say that would be a constraint failed to be considered.

"Completely" is unfair. See: http://andyrutledge.com/images09/newsSite/nyt-redux-article....

But just come out and say "we had to cover the site in ads and couldn't do a better design" if that's the case.

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#14

Post by emp_ »

This was the first thing I considered doing for a living when I got more into the internet back in 98~ (unsolicited redesigns), but I knew I would get into so much trouble and even legal implications. Nowadays if a site has king content and terrible ui/ux I'll just Stylish it down or stick to the feed and move on, if they can't bother to improve the experience the next one will.

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#15

Post by nostrademons »

dmbass wrote: post #5

...the argument that the redesign’s author makes is not quite so persuasive, mostly because it makes some rash assumptions, misses some critical realities and, perhaps worse of all, takes a somewhat inflammatory approach in criticizing the many people who work on the original site. This guy sounds like the redesigner really hurt his feelings. Why not share the design constraints that the redesigner failed to consider…

Often knowledge of design constraints is part of an organization's competitive advantage. These are often painstakingly discovered through mistakes, and any competitor has to make the same mistakes to figure them out. If you tell everyone exactly what you did wrong, it won't take them long to start doing things right.

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#16

Post by [deleted] »

tonydev wrote: post #8
pbreit wrote: post #4

The redesigner did make some breathtaking pronouncements: "The New York Times presents a rather typical example of terribly-designed news" "popularity has nothing to do with news" "today's paper: irrelevant" "the Times’ search results page is an excellent example of usable news design"

I try to keep up with Khoi Vihn and Subtraction because I believe he always provides a balanced insight into respectable/high-design principals and the practicality of applying them to mammoth operations like the NYT and such. In fact, his tone of decency and respect, despite the the off-the-cuff pronouncements made by Andy Rutledge is exactly the voice I've come to expect from Khoi. Which is awesome. Also, this remi…

[deleted]

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#17

Post by napierzaza »

The world also needs more poster re-designs for Kubrick movies. Here's my ideas for 2001, remember that scene at the beginning on a space station? That would make a good poster. What about Clockwork Orange? They could use the Ludivigo exterior in a poster too. I mean, why did they not originally do that?

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#18

Post by antidaily »

WeAreKnights wrote: post #12

Based on the timing, I believe he's talking about the redesign exercise Andy Rutledge did @ http://andyrutledge.com/news-redux.php Khoi Vinh is being a poor sport here. Criticism is an important part of the design world. In school we're taught to use criticism as another resource and learn from it. The design team at the New York Times could have learned a lot from this 'unsolicited' exercise. Instead, they chose to…

Pretty sure Vinh doesnt work there anymore. Also, "learned a lot" is probably an exaggeration. The redesigner admitted himself that it was quickly-conceived and hastily-constructed.

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#19

Post by [deleted] »

[deleted] wrote: post #16
tonydev wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I try to keep up with Khoi Vihn and Subtraction because I believe he always provides a balanced insight into respectable/high-design principals and the practicality of applying them to mammoth operations like the NYT and such. In fact, his tone of decency and respect, despite the the off-the-cuff pronouncements made by Andy Rutledge is exactly the voice I've come to expect from Khoi. Which is awesome. Also, this remi…

[deleted]

[deleted]

Re: Unsolicited Redesigns (Khoi Vinh responds to NYTimes redesign)

#20

Post by emp_ »

ricardobeat wrote: post #7
MichaelApproved wrote: post #6

But as they do so, I also hope they remember it helps no one — least of all the author of the redesign — to assume the worst about the original source and the people who work hard to maintain and improve it, even though those efforts may seem imperfect from the outside. Redesigns, solicited or not, are very helpful to me. I don't care what internal politics the original product designer is grappling with. It's refres…

I don't care what internal politics the original product designer is grappling with. Exactly my thoughts. The original article was harsh but not disrespectful - it's a critique of the end result, not anyone's capabilities, and it has lots of reason.

Also, he tries to critique the redesign based on what was written, not what was designed. Title should be "On criticizing what you know little about the internals".
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