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Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

theguardian.com

261–270 of 356 posts

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#261

I'm amazed at how many people still see the Iraq and Afghanistan interventions as correct moves. Just last week I was having a friendly mostly non-political conversation with two of my coworkers and then the topic verged to the military and then to the Iraq wars. (For context, I'm Canadian and they're both US ex-pats in Canada.) Both had the opinion, still, that the Iraq war was the correct move at the time. But coul…

The initial Iraq invasion was to enforce Kuwaiti sovereignty and stop Saddam's unilateral aggression which was destabilizing the region. We tried bribing him with aid, but he still invaded, so the U.S. kept true to their promise to enforce agreements. The U.S. helped a small country and protected its image. The second Iraq war may or may not have been WMD based, but Saddam slaughtered hundreds of thousands of mostly…

> but Saddam slaughtered hundreds of thousands of mostly Shi'a and Kurdish civilians

I'm not saying that this isn't very bad, and worth stopping, but how is it different from what happens all the time on a lot of places on that region? (Is the US planning an invasion of Israel right now? I don't think so.)

Countries normally don't interfere on such things because doing it has a tendency of backfiring and making things worse than they were at the beginning. From my impression many thousands of km away, the US people mostly did held that opinion at the time, and would refuse to allow an invasion if the government didn't lie to them. Also, the WMD focus was such a blatant lie that it's impossible that anybody with any power believed it.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a source that Iraq has oil. What is your claim? I often see it claimed that the US for some reason wanted Iraqi oil. I just haven't seen evidence for this.

I've added a second quote that more directly addresses the question. But even the first one clearly points to the role of oil in deciding the invasion: there's no need to price the thing out because Iraq has more than enough oil to pay for any and all reconstruction itself. Of course that's going to be a factor in any invasion decision. In any case, further quote from the second one: > To this end, as Whitehall docum…

Interesting. So just oil in a general sense but also Iraq as a destabilizing entity in the area where oil is a primary natural resource. We have to be careful not to be confused with the common conspiracy theory that the US wanted to steal Iraqi oil.

I can buy that. This also needs some context though. Meeting minutes can be seen as brainstorming ideas. Having oil is huge though- having a good natural resource cash cow helps you pay/feed your military and fund an economy- something we see Afghanistan lacked. Good point though, noted. Thanks.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#263
post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The US even sanctions investigators of the International Criminal Court if they try to investigate US war crimes. https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/14/us-sanctions-internation... *Correction ICC not ICJ

The International Criminal Court; the ICJ is a different court with jurisdiction over nations, not individuals.

[deleted]

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that this thread is driven by the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, I think it's important to remember that the invasion of Afghanistan was a NATO operation after NATO invoked Article 5 (Collective Defence) in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that Al-Quaeda launched, organized by their leadership based in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. There are a few additional facts folks forget since this i…

>There were also a number of Taliban leadership that directly aided in the planning and execution of 9/11. Source? I've never heard that. All we ever heard was "harboring AQ."

The support and relationship between the two organizations was bilateral and extremely close.

> Prior to 9/11 the largest single al Qaeda expense was support for the Taliban, estimated at about $20 million per year.

https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/staff_statements/911_Ter...

https://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/06/16/911.commission/

> As final preparations were under way during the summer of 2001, dissent emerged among al Qaeda leaders in Afghanistan over whether to proceed. The Taliban's chief, Mullah Omar, opposed attacking the United States. Although facing opposition from many of his senior lieutenants, Bin Ladin effectively overruled their objections, and the attacks went forward.

https://govinfo.library.unt.edu/911/report/911Report_Exec.ht...

There was also a report outlining several Taliban officials that were identified specifically in their roles, which I can't find anymore on google...

...and they continue to nurture that alliance: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/markaz/2015/08/20/the-taliban...

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2001/sep/26/afghanistan.fe...

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#265

I'm amazed at how many people still see the Iraq and Afghanistan interventions as correct moves. Just last week I was having a friendly mostly non-political conversation with two of my coworkers and then the topic verged to the military and then to the Iraq wars. (For context, I'm Canadian and they're both US ex-pats in Canada.) Both had the opinion, still, that the Iraq war was the correct move at the time. But coul…

The initial Iraq invasion was to enforce Kuwaiti sovereignty and stop Saddam's unilateral aggression which was destabilizing the region. We tried bribing him with aid, but he still invaded, so the U.S. kept true to their promise to enforce agreements. The U.S. helped a small country and protected its image. The second Iraq war may or may not have been WMD based, but Saddam slaughtered hundreds of thousands of mostly…

The US had no problem providing Saddam with money, arms, and biological weapons in the 80s[1], even after he used them against Iranians. And of course, the US been involved in Iran since 1953[2] when they overthrew their first and only democratically elected PM because he wanted to nationalize their oil reserves. As long as Saddam massacred the "right" people, the US fully supported him.

As far as instability, the very boundaries of Iraq were purposefully drawn so that the Kurds, Shias, and Sunnis would be locked into the same nation state and easier to control. Saddam was just one of the pawns in the great oil game the US and the western world has been playing there. The fight over access to oil - the singularly important resource that enables modern armies and economies to function - is the underlying cause of the instability in that region, and has been for the last century.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_support_for_Iraq...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1953_Iranian_coup_d%27%C3%A9ta...

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#268
post #259

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, yes they did.

Please provide specific examples where the US military issued orders to use a drone strike to specifically kill children.

https://theintercept.com/2017/01/30/obama-killed-a-16-year-o...

Looks like they were pretty keen to wipe out that guys entire family; 16 year old son two weeks later and eventually nailed the 8 year old daughter. You dont often see bipartisan action like that.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#269
post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Until the full report of the investigation is released to the public, it's pointless to speculate on the decisions made after 9/11. There certainly appears to be indication that the real people behind it were not targeted for retribution. These days, unless the money trail is followed to its source, you never really know the full story. Yes I'm intionally not naming names/groups/countries, but we probably know who I'…

After 20 years of the US getting jack shit from Afghanistan, you’d think the “we did it for the oil” people would have moved on. But no.

I don't understand this comment. Afghanistan never had oil, nor do I recall any politician ever saying that over the last 20 years.

Am I missing the sarcasm?

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#270
post #215

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people think it was the right move because its the move the country and the president decided to make. Never underestimate how many Americans think that by and large Americans are always the good guys and right.

Because Bush was saying God is on US's side and we are the good guys.

This is the thing when bad deeds are made on His name, he stops listening.
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