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Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

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Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#11

Post by bob33212 »

neogodless wrote: post #4

This article makes me think of the woodworker's dilemma. You might start working with cutting, planing, joining and finishing wood because you want to make a chair or end table, and you like the idea of learning to do it yourself, maybe saving some money, or at least getting some extra tools out of the process, and having some pride in your work. But before you know it, you've spent 4 years accumulating tools, but mo…

This happens even more outside of creator roles. Process people invent processes and then that requires other processes to check those processes, and so on.

Then you are in a situation where just buying a product in a way that hasn't been done before, like from a foreign country, can take months to accomplish because all of these processes were created without that situation in mind.

A real world example of this is the DHS, EFiMS. By the time that they are able to complete all the process, the product they are trying to buy is no longer within the necessary specs and they start all of again every 4 years. https://fcw.com/articles/2020/10/06/dhs-financial-modernizat...

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#12

Post by hvidgaard »

stdbrouw wrote: post #6
the_laka wrote: post #3

Low Code and No Code platforms transform the whole premise though. They do make it easy to "show it how to attach a fastener, then walk away". Too bad, as developers, we scorn those platforms instead of improving them to the point we'd be obsolete.

But that's exactly what people used to think in the 60s and 70s: instead of requiring a bunch of electrical engineers to build some arcane contraption, now ordinary folks can just write something that almost looks like English and you can automate anything and do calculations in seconds that used to take months! If that didn't pan out even though it seemed so freaking obvious that it would , why will No Code be any d…

I'm inclined to agree. One of the most successful "No Code" programs is Excel. Yet we still, time and time again, see people struggle with basic calculations in it. It's literally elementary school mathematics we're talking about.

I think most "No Code" and especially RPA in general will fall into that. The required mindset to think programmatically is not something the majority of people have unfortunately. But "No Code" will enable those that is somewhat technically inclined and able to think sufficiently programmatically.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#13

Post by tibbetts »

The phenomenon of Bullshit Jobs also seems highly relevant: https://www.strike.coop/bullshit-jobs/

If software causes soft cost savings (reducing the number of required people) the savings may not actually be realized. The internal feudalism of large enterprises protected by monopolistic moats means people resist headcount reductions. And since these large enterprises still employ the majority of people, they are over represented in the statistics.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#15

Post by tintt »

I still think that software in general does show up in productivity trends. Take a look at nineties on the chart in the article, this productivity surge can easily be attributed to spreadsheets, text processor and other software innovations that became ubiquitous in that period of time. It’s also true that niche software is hard to make right, but then again, take a look at Amazon — its crazy efficient logistics is based on the custom software and it seems to work fine for them.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#16

Post by toolslive »

stdbrouw wrote: post #6
the_laka wrote: post #3

Low Code and No Code platforms transform the whole premise though. They do make it easy to "show it how to attach a fastener, then walk away". Too bad, as developers, we scorn those platforms instead of improving them to the point we'd be obsolete.

But that's exactly what people used to think in the 60s and 70s: instead of requiring a bunch of electrical engineers to build some arcane contraption, now ordinary folks can just write something that almost looks like English and you can automate anything and do calculations in seconds that used to take months! If that didn't pan out even though it seemed so freaking obvious that it would , why will No Code be any d…

Yes! SQL for example, was invented for business people to allow them to pull their own reports iso having to bother programmers to do it for them. We all know what really happened.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#17

Post by CyberDildonics »

neogodless wrote: post #4

This article makes me think of the woodworker's dilemma. You might start working with cutting, planing, joining and finishing wood because you want to make a chair or end table, and you like the idea of learning to do it yourself, maybe saving some money, or at least getting some extra tools out of the process, and having some pride in your work. But before you know it, you've spent 4 years accumulating tools, but mo…

> In fact, you spend 90% of your time building tools.

This is a ridiculous exaggeration with almost any wood worker. Making tools and jigs doesn't require much time and someone usually only does it after they have already done something without them at least once.

Programming tools are much more difficult to make. You need special skills and most tools aren't made to be easily extended.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#18

Post by swalsh »

This is off topic a bit since the article was really talking about something tangently different, and it's probably a really unpopular thing to say, but it's been in my mind for a while. If you look at the worlds population growth rate, you can see that it is beginning to level off. That world of 10 billion that we were all preparing for several years ago is probably not going to come.

If the population stabalizes, or even starts shrinking, how important is growth of productivity? Making "Stuff" is obviously important, but in a world with lowering demand, maybe quality and distribution are the metrics we should be concentrating on.

I have 2 kids, I am the only one with kids in both mine and my wifes family. My 2 kids are the only grandkids between 3 sets of grandparents (wife's parents got divorced and remarried). They are inudated with LOADS of stuff. So much so that it's a real problem. I tell my parents to stop buying them stuff. They think i'm joking. I'm not. IT'S TOO MUCH STUFF. I wish they would all go in, and just get my kids 1 good high quality thing. They just don't need all this cheap low quality stuff.

I bring this up, because thinking this way is a different paradigm. Agile is still very relavent to quality driven development. But scale less so.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#19

Post by kiba »

neogodless wrote: post #4

This article makes me think of the woodworker's dilemma. You might start working with cutting, planing, joining and finishing wood because you want to make a chair or end table, and you like the idea of learning to do it yourself, maybe saving some money, or at least getting some extra tools out of the process, and having some pride in your work. But before you know it, you've spent 4 years accumulating tools, but mo…

As I remember Elon Musk saying, the best part is no part. Likewise, same for process.

The worst thing an engineer can do is optimize to a requirement that don't need to exist.

Re: Why Doesn't Software Show Up in Productivity?

#20

Post by bildung »

stdbrouw wrote: post #6
the_laka wrote: post #3

Low Code and No Code platforms transform the whole premise though. They do make it easy to "show it how to attach a fastener, then walk away". Too bad, as developers, we scorn those platforms instead of improving them to the point we'd be obsolete.

But that's exactly what people used to think in the 60s and 70s: instead of requiring a bunch of electrical engineers to build some arcane contraption, now ordinary folks can just write something that almost looks like English and you can automate anything and do calculations in seconds that used to take months! If that didn't pan out even though it seemed so freaking obvious that it would , why will No Code be any d…

To add an anecdote: No Code already was the hot new thing in the 90s when I studied CS. You could click together custom interfaces in Delphi and even do basic wiring with clicking alone, IIRC. Devs expected that laypeople click together the solution they want and developers do the remaining wiring. Yet no non-developer could actually use that thing. Nowadays I think the main hurdle is the transformation of a fluffy real world problem into something of an algorithm. Developers do this almost unconsciously, because they practice this all the time, and thus are usually not aware of it. Yet this process of quantification of the real world problem often is the actual problem, not writing it down as code.
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