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Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

theguardian.com

151–160 of 356 posts

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#151
post #2

Key figures in US military and US leadership need to be held accountable. Same as with CEOs, if you only punish the organization and not specifically the leaders, there is no disincentive to doing it again. Clearly the US is exempt from the war crimes laws, and that needs to change. But it would require leaders of other major powers/countries to push for this. But… this will never happen because almost no leader want…

I'd really like a huge investigation of the entire conflict. What progress were we seeing to justify being there for 20 years? What were we told? What did we know? It's not totally lost if we learn from this and get better.

Gitmo also needs to be emptied, at least of everyone detained from this conflict.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#152
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As much as I dislike Steinmeier, I agree. We also don't know how much pressure was exerted on him.

That does not exonerate him. He could have stepped back and make the pressure public. Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger did step back when she did not agree with a legislative proposal.

Sabine Leutheusser-Schnarrenberger was less important and probably less threatened. Otto Schily instead, then interior minister of Germany, alledgedly was fearing for the security of his loved ones, caused by threats made against him.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#153
post #2

Key figures in US military and US leadership need to be held accountable. Same as with CEOs, if you only punish the organization and not specifically the leaders, there is no disincentive to doing it again. Clearly the US is exempt from the war crimes laws, and that needs to change. But it would require leaders of other major powers/countries to push for this. But… this will never happen because almost no leader want…

The US even sanctions investigators of the International Criminal Court if they try to investigate US war crimes.

https://www.hrw.org/news/2020/12/14/us-sanctions-internation...

*Correction ICC not ICJ

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#154
post #32

Among the key figures in the design of American torture programs during the War on Terror were American psychologists James Elmer Mitchell ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Elmer_Mitchell ) and Bruce Jessen ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bruce_Jessen ), who were paid $81m for their work. Irony upon ironies: "Mitchell, who is retired and lives in Land o' Lakes, Florida, spends his free time kayaking, rafting and…

This is another example how the US society frankly doesn’t care. There are plenty of ways the local citizens could organize to make life hell for people like those. Yet it doesn’t happen.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that this thread is driven by the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, I think it's important to remember that the invasion of Afghanistan was a NATO operation after NATO invoked Article 5 (Collective Defence) in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that Al-Quaeda launched, organized by their leadership based in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. There are a few additional facts folks forget since this i…

Since you are bringing up NATO, I will just spell out the Hague Invasion Act ELI5 : US Congress signed into law the a priori consent of invading the capitol of one of its NATO allies ( NL ). Disclaimer : I am Dutch.

[deleted]

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#156
post #103

Murat Kurnaz was also held and tortured for four more years at Guantanamo, even after it was clear that he was innocent. The person responsible(²), Frank-Walter Steinmeier, is now Germany's president. There is a repeating pattern here: Governments, officials and people in power are not held accountable. -- (²) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank-Walter_Steinmeier#Murat_...

"The Reckoning: Financial Accountability and the Rise and Fall of Nations" https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XKQ4636/

Great book, it directionally aligns Progress to accountability (really accounting). After reading the book, when I am in a big city I look up at the skyscrapers and think about how despite the web of vendors and people trying to defraud each other, some small amount of value manages to get diverted into a successful skyscraper, and this is made possible by accounting. Progress is an iterative prisoner's dilemma

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#157

You also shouldn't forget to hold the other powers to account that made it impossible to have peace in Afghanistan. Russia put out bounties on US soldiers, Iran armed the Taliban, Pakistan sheltered them and I'm sure China had their fingers in there just as well. The Taliban have never been the legitimate, much less the benevolent government of the Afghan people. If you've seen "The Handmaid's Tale" you have a genera…

Russia bounty on US soldiers story was probably fake, medias were quiet when it was revealed. https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.politico.com/amp/news/2021/...

The article you are referring to actually says the story is probably true, but that the confidence of the intelligence community in this finding is only "weak to moderate".

The much bigger problem was that Trump said outright this story is fake, instead of holding Putin's feet to the fire or getting behind the issue at all.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hague (NL) Invasion Act : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Service-Members%27_Pr...

Given that this thread is driven by the Taliban takeover of Afghanistan, I think it's important to remember that the invasion of Afghanistan was a NATO operation after NATO invoked Article 5 (Collective Defence) in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks that Al-Quaeda launched, organized by their leadership based in Afghanistan under the protection of the Taliban. There are a few additional facts folks forget since this i…

> IMO, "nation building" is always an impossible mission. The objective should have been to attack, destroy the enemy, and leave - immediately. Punishing the sponsors of the 9/11 attacks, not entrenching an ideological split.

That's bollocks. I'm German, had the Allied Powers followed the Morgenthau plan Germany would be essentially an Afghanistan today - an agro state and nothing more. But you all followed through with Marshall, and that was perhaps the ideal example that nation building works.

It is just very complex, requires understanding of cultural differences, and patience. The Western countries didn't even have a proper post-immediate-hostility strategy (partially because Bush's cronies clearly hadn't invested a single second of thought beyond "how to fill the coffers of the MIC) in Afghanistan, much less a plan on how to give Afghanistan-the-country an economic perspective beyond farming opium.

Afghanistan has a lot of precious natural resources: minerals, metals, oil and gas. Had the Western countries invested in kickstarting mining these, providing locals with employment and the government with a steady stream of funds, the situation would have been very difficult today. Especially since a population that has security, stability and income doesn't go and look for the next fundamentalist terrorist for a perspective!

As a result: I refuse to put blame on any ANA soldier or civilian for deserting against the Taliban. Why fight for a country that has literally no way to survive on its own?

And fwiw, the lack of a modern "Marshall Plan" clone is also what led to the shitshows that are Libya, Iraq, Lebanon and Syria. You can't just go into a place, depose a dictator and then hope that the situation will turn out all right on its own. If you want democracy, you have to make it appealing to people!

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#159
post #57
post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s an obvious lie. US is extremely loyal to its war criminals - good example is how people responsible for downing Iran Air Flight 655 not only never got punished, but were actually decorated. Even Russia handles this kind of situations better.

> Even Russia handles this kind of situations better. Yeah? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malaysia_Airlines_Flight_17#Br...

Russia didn’t proudly decorate people responsible for downing an airliner. The US did.

Re: Guantánamo survivor on the war on terror’s failure

#160
post #119

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since you are bringing up NATO, I will just spell out the Hague Invasion Act ELI5 : US Congress signed into law the a priori consent of invading the capitol of one of its NATO allies ( NL ). Disclaimer : I am Dutch.

Perhaps the first line of defense against such an invasion would be to agitate the farmers, causing them to drive all their tractors back into town. It's pretty difficult to get anything done with them ruining all transportation.

Or make Sadiq khan the mayor...
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