The Rooms Where It Happened • Hacker News Board

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#11

Post by gjm11 » Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:30 PM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #8

poszlem wrote: post #3

I understand why (historically), but it is still one of those things that cannot be unseen once you see them - there are no women in those paintings/photos. It really boggles the mind of a modern human.

>> there are no women in those paintings/photos. Except the last one, the one from 1995. Progress happened. I"m glad to see that the first woman to be depicted is actually sitting at the table. I'd be unhappy if the one woman in the article was servant or mistress to one of the men. This woman is clearly a world leaders, although I cannot figure out who she is. (Is the woman leaning over the table Hillary Clinton?)

I think the seated woman is Pauline Neville-Jones, who was leading the UK's delegation. She was a senior civil servant (director of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office) rather than a world leader.

I think the woman in green leaning over the table is some sort of aide rather than a person of power in her own right. See e.g. the picture here https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/20/dayton-25-years where she's apparently sorting out a document for the president of Bosnia while others to her left and right are doing likewise for the presidents of Serbia and Croatia.

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#12

Post by ridaj » Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:33 PM UTC

I love how the era of Zoom lawmaking has killed decorum for so many of these state public functions. The pompous elected officials now have to connect from what often look like very pedestrian suburban homes, with either bare walls or run-of-the-mill family pics on them, bad lighting, cameras too close to them and too high or too low... They no longer project the institutional authority of big, carpeted, wainscoted, pillared halls of power, and it's just as well: I like that they should think of themselves as mere managers of public administration, not historical figures destined to leave grandiose legacies...

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#13

Post by jhgb » Sun, Aug 15, 2021, 11:44 PM UTC

gjm11 wrote: post #11

sandworm101 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> there are no women in those paintings/photos. Except the last one, the one from 1995. Progress happened. I"m glad to see that the first woman to be depicted is actually sitting at the table. I'd be unhappy if the one woman in the article was servant or mistress to one of the men. This woman is clearly a world leaders, although I cannot figure out who she is. (Is the woman leaning over the table Hillary Clinton?)

I think the seated woman is Pauline Neville-Jones, who was leading the UK's delegation. She was a senior civil servant (director of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office) rather than a world leader. I think the woman in green leaning over the table is some sort of aide rather than a person of power in her own right. See e.g. the picture here https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2020/11/20/dayton-25-years where she's apparent…

> I think the seated woman is Pauline Neville-Jones, who was leading the UK's delegation.

It is her: https://www.c-span.org/video/?68521-1/bosnia-peace-agreement

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#14

Post by scoopertrooper » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 2:15 AM UTC

jhgb wrote: post #5

poszlem wrote: post #3

I understand why (historically), but it is still one of those things that cannot be unseen once you see them - there are no women in those paintings/photos. It really boggles the mind of a modern human.

> It really boggles the mind of a modern human. I'm not sure it would, since it would still be unlikely today for them to be there in these military positions.

Yup, that's a bunch dudes.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Chiefs_of_Staff#Current_...

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#15

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 2:29 AM UTC

ridaj wrote: post #12

I love how the era of Zoom lawmaking has killed decorum for so many of these state public functions. The pompous elected officials now have to connect from what often look like very pedestrian suburban homes, with either bare walls or run-of-the-mill family pics on them, bad lighting, cameras too close to them and too high or too low... They no longer project the institutional authority of big, carpeted, wainscoted,…

Amusing is the inevitable bookshelf in the background, with a carefully curated selection of books designed to impress the viewer. Has the person even read any of them?

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#16

Post by WalterBright » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 2:30 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #6

These are the rooms where documents were signed. Actual negotiation and agreement happen in much more humble places. The french revolution famously began in a tennis court. Every peace plan for the last thousand years was first agreed over either a bar or dinner table. The dive bars of any world capital have better stories to tell than any government auditorium.

I thought a lot was fomented in coffeehouses.

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#17

Post by gumby » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 3:22 AM UTC

poszlem wrote: post #3

I understand why (historically), but it is still one of those things that cannot be unseen once you see them - there are no women in those paintings/photos. It really boggles the mind of a modern human.

Yes, until the Dayton accords, though likely at Helsinki too, though there’s no way to see.

I thought I saw a flash of white in the Versailles treaty photo but when I zoomed in it was just some man in a lightly colored suit.

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#18

Post by sumedh » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:06 AM UTC

scoopertrooper wrote: post #14

jhgb wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It really boggles the mind of a modern human. I'm not sure it would, since it would still be unlikely today for them to be there in these military positions.

Yup, that's a bunch dudes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_Chiefs_of_Staff#Current_...

bunch of white dudes and token minority :)

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#19

Post by blkhawk » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 5:27 AM UTC

sandworm101 wrote: post #8

poszlem wrote: post #3

I understand why (historically), but it is still one of those things that cannot be unseen once you see them - there are no women in those paintings/photos. It really boggles the mind of a modern human.

>> there are no women in those paintings/photos. Except the last one, the one from 1995. Progress happened. I"m glad to see that the first woman to be depicted is actually sitting at the table. I'd be unhappy if the one woman in the article was servant or mistress to one of the men. This woman is clearly a world leaders, although I cannot figure out who she is. (Is the woman leaning over the table Hillary Clinton?)

There are woman in the 1975 one as well - its sorta hard to tell but one is right in the middle-left foreground.

The others in the distance are less clear - but there are clearly some in the press pool? on the middle balcony.

Re: The Rooms Where It Happened

#20

Post by SebaSeba » Mon, Aug 16, 2021, 6:16 AM UTC

Ah, open the link and first thing I see is Finlandia Hall's main concert hall. I worked there as an event assistant and host as young student back in the day. Was very nice to listen to classical music concerts and other on the work there. Nice place, great historic atmosphere. :) No events anywhere near as important as the Helsinki Process during my days though. This was between 2005-2010.