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California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

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131–140 of 193 posts

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#131
post #74

Real quick thing about the water in California: it's important because it is used to make food, which is exported from the state's central plains to the rest of the country. Your mental model should not include the direct water use of humans.. this is and always has been about the economics of food production. So if people leave California, it will be because they can't get jobs in agriculture.. people would be comin…

Hm. Pistachios, cashews, almonds, various nuts also land on the shelves of German Aldi and Lidl in convenient 200g bags.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Lifelong Californian here. We're not victims - that would imply some outside actor. In reality it's almost entirely our fault. You're responding to a post about wildfires. Your post doesn't make sense in context. p.s. I was born, worked and lived in California for 40 years.

No, I'm responding to a post and comment about the water shortage which mentions wildfires in passing. You've been here almost as long as I have!

> No, I'm responding to a post and comment about the water shortage which mentions wildfires in passing.

Original: > This is a little unreasonable and just smacks of victim blaming. The way you write suggests the California has been deliberately setting their own wildfires, rather than just being a early victim of climate change.

> We're not victims - that would imply some outside actor. In reality it's almost entirely our fault

Your interpretation of the chain of the conversation is incorrect. The victim-blaming is in reference to wildfires, which you re-frame as being about water (because that's what you want to focus on). Good luck with whatever.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the most extreme scenario, can the US create new agricultural fields in other states, cutting down forests if needed ? The weather will change but surely the US will still have arable land enough to feed its citizens (even if they have to forget some kind of crops (pistachio, etc.) aside) ?

Sure, but nothing will fully replace the productivity of the California central valley, which has some of the most fertile soil in the world. The Willamette valley up in Oregon is incredibly fertile as well, though it is currently too cold to grow lettuce and strawberries year round. That will change in the coming years but the Willamette valley is about the third the size. Additionally, the Pacific northwest is drou…

I wonder if there are any water loss effiencies that can be applied to crops. Farmers of certain crops in California basically erect and take down temporary structures of all sorts either for pest or temperature controls to optimize yields already.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the major agricultural commodities for which California is the breadbasket, and how many of those commodities could be sustainably grown elsewhere in the US and/or imported from abroad? Besides maybe almonds (which can presumably be easily imported), nothing springs to mind as predominately californian.

California totally dominates the fruit market. Georgia might call itself the Peach State but California produces 20 times more peaches. California produces 90% of the nation's grapes and twenty times more wine than the second-place state. It's not necessarily that you couldn't grow these elsewhere, but it is a path-dependent process by which government subsidies have pushed all this production to California and kille…

As long as the other states’ diet can be 100% corn based, they’ll be fine.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#135
post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

Wildfires don't really play into climate change much, carbon gets released, the plants grow back. In the same way, planting trees doesn't help climate change much, its just a temporary buffer.

Also it is easy to say "build water projects", but to actually do it is not so simple. Build what exactly, where, and what other consequences will result? The world is crowded enough that people's usual "simple" solutions almost always cause other problems, or are vastly too small in scale to help anything at all (plant trees! don't use paper straws!)

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As climate bands move, which areas become suitable change as well. I don't think it's obvious yet exactly where, if anywhere, makes sense since the place you move it to might be untenable ten years later at this rate. Of course such moves would heavily entrench large agricultural companies who have the resources to build speculative farms. I'm personally expecting that farmers will adapt to local conditions and grow…

Well, th skies have looked progressively more like Bladerunner 2049 up here in Alberta for 4 summers running. We had some crops fail due to heat earlier in the season, and more are failing due to dryness now. So don't look at us.

I think too many people have a mental model that we can just shift a little north and it will all be ok, but that’s too simple a model. The temperature extremes from regular seasons are likely going to widen, making crop yields drop in a much wider band than just where the average temperatures rise and precipitation drops to drought levels.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#137
post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yup. Or even just build a canal from the Pacific Northwest - which gets so much water they can’t use almost any of it, even damming everything they can - down south. California has always gone through droughts, and the issue isn’t an actual lack of water (from a support of the population, or even support of agriculture in general). It’s the economics of it, what is cost effective where, and prioritization of what mak…

You can't use words like "always" - large-scale habitation of California isn't even a century old.

[deleted]

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you considered drip irrigation? It was designed with desert agriculture in mind. Shade can also make a big difference.

My garden has drip irrigation and looks like a burned mess unfortunately. I think it is just the effect of the hot dry air on the leaves.

My wife is a master gardener at 5500' elevation in AZ. If the monsoon happens (50% chance) then there are two difficult months, May and June. June is the real bitch. Highs in the high 90s, hot winds out of the southwest everyday, and no clouds. If the monsoon fails (again 50% chance) then every month is difficult.

She grows many varieties of tomatoes, okra, blackberries, three kinds of eggplant, basil, cilantro, and many varieties of beans. It's AZ, so of course there is a cornucopia of chiles, and garlic.

Peaches and the other stone fruits are more dependent on the weather in Feb. (it snows here).

Here are the techniques: partial shade from large trees, shade cloth over seedlings, timers on the drip, and the drip runs three times a day in June. Missing a single irrigation day in June means death to the garden. She does have some spray heads but most of the garden is just drip. Oh, and you can't plant too early, we've lost an entire bed of tomato seedlings to frost in May! That seems like it's a diminishing problem, however. The soil is the kitchen/garden compost + a few bags of water retention garden soil every year.

I have seen gardens in Phoenix in the summer and the only possibility is full shade cloth over just about everything.

The water is just city water, it's expensive. $100/month May-Sep. Because we're food snobs, and the flavors and textures are so much better, it's worth it. There's a lot of work in the spring getting everything going, and we joke about the "garden nazi" in Sep-Oct, where the harvest pretty much demands constant processing (which I do). But the middle 3 months are less than 1/2 hr/day.

If you're curious about your local growing environment and how to deal with it, the local university agricultural extension are the goto folks. They literally exist to help you with this.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#139
post #30
post #5

Well, it won’t be not the first time that the center of civilization shifts due to climate change… In Central Europe we are having rainy summers and mild temperatures. I would love having some neighbours from California in my summer house…

Where in Central Europe? Here (Slovakia) we have hot, dry summers.

Here in Bavaria, Germany, we just had and still have a normal German summer. Lots of rain, highest temperatures still below 30°C (86°F).

The rains are more violent though, sudden, lots of water in a short amount of time, high winds, right now even hail (just passed through half an hour ago and there is a warning out for worse conditions in some areas). In another state we just lost well over a hundred people to floods, which is a gigantic number. So there's that too.

Still, temperatures have been perfect. I got an A/C two years ago when we reached 40°C (104°F) which kept me cool for the two or three weeks when it was needed last year. It's just been standing in a corner this year, could have left it in storage.

I remember, going to school in the 1980s in East Germany, when the thermometer reached 26°C (77°F) by 10 am we would get the rest of the school day off ("hitzefrei" - "heat free") - if I remember that correctly (if not I'm not far off). It happened only a handful of times in my ten years at that school. -- https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hitzefrei (German - showing the current state of that particular regulation for work places and schools, they depend on the state and what I see is similar to what I remember)

This years rains were enough for parts of West and most of South Germany to get enough water into the soil, but East Germany still counts as drought area, map; https://www.ufz.de/index.php?de=37937 -- Too bad that lots of East Germany has a lot of very large fields, so that's not good. Still better than the last few years that created those drought conditions.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#140
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the most extreme scenario, can the US create new agricultural fields in other states, cutting down forests if needed ? The weather will change but surely the US will still have arable land enough to feed its citizens (even if they have to forget some kind of crops (pistachio, etc.) aside) ?

> can the US create new agricultural fields in other states Even California could. California could have much more irrigated agricultural land, if they completed Stage II of the original 1957 California Water Plan. I guess before 1970s, there was not much political controversy in building reservoirs and harnessing rivers and directing the water flow though agriculture. Then in the 1970s and after, some people started…

Think BIGRRRRR!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/North_American_Water_and_Power...

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