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California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

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Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#21

Post by TchoBeer »

eplanit wrote: post #17
jeffbee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up? The fact is that California's urban water use has been declining since 1976, in absolute terms, not just in per-capita terms. The East Bay Municipal Utility District, for example, now only delivers half the water it delivered in 1976, despite the fact that the population in its service area has increased by 50% over that period. Conservation and efficienc…

"Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up?" A serious question? More water in reserve = more water in reserve. If you fill 4 glasses with water now, and then then EBMUD turns the water off for the rest of the day due to a broken main (I know EBMUD really well), you'll have 4 more glasses of water to drink than you would have, otherwise. Simple math, really.

Building more reservoirs doesn't mean there's more water in reserve, it just means there's more space to store water.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#22

Post by katbyte »

hh3k0 wrote: post #13
joelbluminator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Doesn't sound likely. You will be able to settle tens of millions of refugees in Greenland, Siberia etc. Former frozen wasteland will become habitable. I don't think Europe or the U.S will volunteer to absorb tens of millions of refugees if there are other solutions.

> I don't think Europe or the U.S will volunteer to absorb tens of millions of refugees if there are other solutions. Who said anything about volunteering? Europe couldn't stop ~1 million people from entering in 2015, so what makes you think they can stop 50 to 100 times that number? > Greenland, Siberia etc. Former frozen wasteland will become habitable "Billions of Acres of Cropland Lie Within a New Frontier. So Do…

There is a difference between wouldn’t stop and couldn’t stop, I don’t think Europe really tried that hard?

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#23

Post by CraneWorm »

eplanit wrote: post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

> They're really just stupid out here.

I don't think this is a fair statement and rather it seems like you want just to put a label on the whole state to avoid having to research into why didn't California build more reservoirs; frankly, to me it makes you look like a troll.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#24

Post by jeffbee »

eplanit wrote: post #17
jeffbee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up? The fact is that California's urban water use has been declining since 1976, in absolute terms, not just in per-capita terms. The East Bay Municipal Utility District, for example, now only delivers half the water it delivered in 1976, despite the fact that the population in its service area has increased by 50% over that period. Conservation and efficienc…

"Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up?" A serious question? More water in reserve = more water in reserve. If you fill 4 glasses with water now, and then then EBMUD turns the water off for the rest of the day due to a broken main (I know EBMUD really well), you'll have 4 more glasses of water to drink than you would have, otherwise. Simple math, really.

It only seems simple if you're the kind of imbecile they put on the staff at the National Review. California has several reservoirs that aren't fed by gravity runoff, but by pumping ("off stream" reservoirs). All of the newly proposed reservoirs are of this type, such as the Sites Reservoir. To fill these you need excess water elsewhere. We don't have excess water elsewhere, thus we could not fill them. This isn't a simple matter of time-shifting water from one year to the next because as the OP is pointing out this is a long-term phenomenon that is permanently decreasing our steady-state precipitation.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#25

Post by hourislate »

jeffbee wrote: post #15
eplanit wrote: post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up? The fact is that California's urban water use has been declining since 1976, in absolute terms, not just in per-capita terms. The East Bay Municipal Utility District, for example, now only delivers half the water it delivered in 1976, despite the fact that the population in its service area has increased by 50% over that period. Conservation and efficienc…

Your point could be valid. A quick googling of water demand in CA produces the following. Urban water use is only 10% of total water use in California. Agriculture uses anywhere from 30% (wet year) to 70% (dry year). Just raising cattle in the state uses anywhere from 100-250 million gallons per day.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#27

Post by lovecg »

aesh2Xa1 wrote: post #20
eplanit wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up?" A serious question? More water in reserve = more water in reserve. If you fill 4 glasses with water now, and then then EBMUD turns the water off for the rest of the day due to a broken main (I know EBMUD really well), you'll have 4 more glasses of water to drink than you would have, otherwise. Simple math, really.

OP's point is that you have two glasses now, which are empty. Another two to make four and you'll have four empty glasses. You need to address the reason why they're empty. You said you know the system well, so do you mind explaining?

They’re empty now, but presumably they would not have been pre-drought, delaying the point when the current shortage begins.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#28

Post by xeromal »

throwaway894345 wrote: post #19
jeffbee wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up? The fact is that California's urban water use has been declining since 1976, in absolute terms, not just in per-capita terms. The East Bay Municipal Utility District, for example, now only delivers half the water it delivered in 1976, despite the fact that the population in its service area has increased by 50% over that period. Conservation and efficienc…

> Our reservoirs are empty. Why would another reservoir help up? I’m not an expert, but presumably the reservoirs are empty because too many people were drawing on them (too much load per unit capacity). Increasing the reservoirs spreads the load across greater capacity. But in general California (and much of the rest of the country) needs to stop it’s unsustainable agriculture practices.

The problem is that California is the breadbasket for a ton of US goods. You're right, we need to stop but it's gonna be painful for a lot of industries.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#29

Post by vimy »

eplanit wrote: post #11

These droughts were anticipated, but here in California preparing for climate change means preaching at others, and setting up a carbon exchange. Not a single new reservoir has been built since 1979. It's impossible to take California seriously about much of anything, but especially not regarding the environment: "In 1979, California’s population was a little more than 23 million. Today, it is more than 39 million. Y…

Cheap electricity to power desalination plants could be a solution.

Re: California's dry season is turning into a permanent state of being

#30

Post by tpm »

chewz wrote: post #5

Well, it won’t be not the first time that the center of civilization shifts due to climate change… In Central Europe we are having rainy summers and mild temperatures. I would love having some neighbours from California in my summer house…

Where in Central Europe? Here (Slovakia) we have hot, dry summers.
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