25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0 • Hacker News Board

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#41

Post by Ericson2314 » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:38 PM UTC

bryanrasmussen wrote: post #24

whoisthemachine wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Agreed. As I read the lines on the long hours and resultant divorces, all I could think of was "...and for what? A better browser?". Certainly IE advanced the state of the art at the time, but if Microsoft hadn't won the browser wars and Netscape had remained dominant and inched along with incremental improvements, we still would have reached the point where we are today, but maybe a little later.

> we still would have reached the point where we are today, but maybe a little later. or maybe a bit earlier if MS hadn't won but just been a credible competitor and then something like Opera came along - a 3 way race would probably have evolved things quicker.

Like those overplanted baby forests that grow up quicker.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#42

Post by Ericson2314 » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:39 PM UTC

brundolf wrote: post #14

earthscienceman wrote: post #9

I don't think people indoctrinated in tech culture can understand just how weird something like this reads. All I could comprehend when I finished was "100 people work themselves to emotional exhaustion so American mega corp can retain monopoly status". I see nothing of valor, just a strange subculture that people are willing to sacrifice themselves to for reasons that make no sense to me. I can't imagine ruining my…

Without making a value judgement, there's an aspect of the human psychology that revels in certain challenges simply because they are hard and impactful. This can be a good thing, and it can be a bad thing. It can separately be good or bad for the people involved, and for the world that they impact. But it is a normal and recurring part of human nature.

It's a good trait, but we must be responsible in gratifying that urge.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#43

Post by Ericson2314 » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:40 PM UTC

kenjackson wrote: post #39

Ericson2314 wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well Kobe Bryant isn't a scab like these people that work overtime for a monopolist.

The NBA is a monopoly for pro basketball in the US.

Yes, but the Lakers are not. And the players have a union.

Competition within the NBA is zero-sum so it isn't like Kobe working really hard further entrenches the NBA anywhere close to the same degree as IE for MS.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#44

Post by armchairhacker » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:45 PM UTC

sbarre wrote: post #21

earthscienceman wrote: post #9

I don't think people indoctrinated in tech culture can understand just how weird something like this reads. All I could comprehend when I finished was "100 people work themselves to emotional exhaustion so American mega corp can retain monopoly status". I see nothing of valor, just a strange subculture that people are willing to sacrifice themselves to for reasons that make no sense to me. I can't imagine ruining my…

I'll say one thing, and I know it will come off as cliche: If you weren't there, you may not understand. In the early days of the consumer Internet (mid/late 90s) there was a real wild west / gold rush feeling to things and it did feel like we were changing the world (spoiler: most of us weren't). I am not defending or excusing anything here, just saying that I'm sure it was a lot easier for some people, perhaps alre…

But it was kind of a gold rush, race-to-first?

I mean look at the Web today using TCP, IPv4, HTML/CSS/JavaScript, with companies like Google, Facebook, Amazon. If the internet was created with what we know now it would look much different. You will never be able to create a technology or company so flawed like that today.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#45

Post by dt3ft » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 10:50 PM UTC

figbert wrote: post #3

Here it is on Thread Reader: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1426587396343099397.html

Thank you! This format should have been the first choice. I simply can't fathom why people post an article on twitter. Every sentence is a tweet, so that what, people can "like" each sentence? I wish people would stop using twitter for this type of data...

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#46

Post by brundolf » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 11:01 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #42

brundolf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without making a value judgement, there's an aspect of the human psychology that revels in certain challenges simply because they are hard and impactful. This can be a good thing, and it can be a bad thing. It can separately be good or bad for the people involved, and for the world that they impact. But it is a normal and recurring part of human nature.

It's a good trait, but we must be responsible in gratifying that urge.

I'm not even sure I would call it a "good trait" (though I'm not sure I would call it a "bad trait" either), I just felt like the GP feigning a total lack of understanding and claiming that anybody who's experienced this feeling must be "indoctrinated" seemed disingenuous. For better or worse most of us have experienced it at one time or another, and all of us have at least witnessed it in other people. It's nothing mysterious or unimaginable.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#47

Post by twoodfin » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 11:08 PM UTC

warning26 wrote: post #7

> Sadly for me, Microsoft broke up the IE team because it thought “we won.” (...) Years later, Internet Explorer would plummet in marketshare and become a sad joke among Web developers. Looking back at the version history of IE, a lot of people forget how good earlier IE was compared to its competitors. "Best viewed in Internet Explorer" ultimately ended up being a punchline, but there really was something to it; IE…

My understanding is that the consent decree that was the ultimate result of U.S. v. Microsoft added significant legal friction to the development of new IE capabilities.

You can imagine that a development culture like the one described in this Twitter thread would have a near-allergic reaction to working in an environment where the lawyers had to clear every major enhancement. Microsoft management wasn’t excited about pushing that rock up hill either, given their market dominance.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#48

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 11:12 PM UTC

splatzone wrote: post #29

brundolf wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without making a value judgement, there's an aspect of the human psychology that revels in certain challenges simply because they are hard and impactful. This can be a good thing, and it can be a bad thing. It can separately be good or bad for the people involved, and for the world that they impact. But it is a normal and recurring part of human nature.

To give an example from another industry altogether, James Lapine just released a book detailing the process of creating the American musical Sunday in the Park with George. The experience described in that book matches what you’re saying very closely, it sounds absolutely excruciating for all involved, but the director and composer’s belief that they were making something worthy carried them through.[0] [0] https://…

[deleted]

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#49

Post by listenallyall » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 11:21 PM UTC

earthscienceman wrote: post #9

I don't think people indoctrinated in tech culture can understand just how weird something like this reads. All I could comprehend when I finished was "100 people work themselves to emotional exhaustion so American mega corp can retain monopoly status". I see nothing of valor, just a strange subculture that people are willing to sacrifice themselves to for reasons that make no sense to me. I can't imagine ruining my…

The part you are missing is that at that time, it felt like the entire company's future was in jeopardy. It wasn't inconceivable, back then, that if Netscape dominated, every aspect of Microsoft's business would soon be rendered obsolete.

They were working hard to ensure the company continued to exist, a pretty noble cause. Your "3rd version of MS web browser" is a trivialization.

Re: 25 years ago Microsoft released Internet Explorer 3.0

#50

Post by jimmygrapes » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 11:31 PM UTC

Ericson2314 wrote: post #43

kenjackson wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The NBA is a monopoly for pro basketball in the US.

Yes, but the Lakers are not. And the players have a union. Competition within the NBA is zero-sum so it isn't like Kobe working really hard further entrenches the NBA anywhere close to the same degree as IE for MS.

He is also dead, but I am assuming that's known