Earlier quoted context omitted.
I suspect that real estate prices are dragged up by fear of inflation. People in my country buy whatever has a roof, because they do not want their savings to go to waste.
It’s all about the cheap money. I just refinanced my house for a rate that is effectively negative in real terms right now.
Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
71–80 of 95 posts
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#72I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.
https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/corona-demo-rechtsext...
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#73Odd/amusing point, the Stasi referred to the wall as the "antifascist defense border". Although these days, I'm a bit torn on the term as I see rent prices jacked up across the world by whomever can borrow money at the lowest rate. The Stasi and the Berlin Wall | DW Documentary https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haxkWC6MgcQ
I suspect that real estate prices are dragged up by fear of inflation. People in my country buy whatever has a roof, because they do not want their savings to go to waste.
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#74I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.
There is/was a (right-wing) NPD political assembly that is being protested by the Green Party, supposedly in the area of the wall. I'm guessing this is the reason for the hordes of police. https://www.tagesschau.de/investigativ/corona-demo-rechtsext...
> I'm guessing this is the reason for the hordes of police.
Somehow I doubt it.
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#75* The wall was not between East and West Berlin, but between West Berlin and the GDR, entirely enclosing West Berlin, naturally. (45 km bordered East Berlin, 113 km Potsdam, the state around Berlin.)
* Just two months before the wall was built, at a press conference, Walter Ulbricht, then head of the GDR, said that nobody had the intention of building a wall. "Niemand hat die Absicht, eine Mauer zu errichten."
* It wasn't just a wall, but an entire corridor 50m to several hundred metres wide (on the "Eastern" side), consisting of a smaller wall ("Hinterlandmauer"), sometimes corridors for K-9s (German shepherds, naturally), anti-tank obstacles ("Czech hedgehog"), observation towers (302 by the time the wall came down), control strips "Kontrollstreifen" of freshly harrowed sand so trespassers would leave tracks, then "the wall", then a few more metres GDR, then the actual legal border. (However, no "Selbstschussanlagen SM-70", shotguns rigged to fire automatically - those were only deployed at the border to West Germany.)
* There were 2300 border troops deployed at any time, mostly in pairs to control each other, but rotating, so that they couldn't form a bond. They were under an order to shoot trespassers, the infamous "Schiessbefehl".
* Some 100 to 200+ people died trying to cross the wall. It is surprisingly hard to put an exact number on it.
* There were some "enclaves" (exclaves?) like the Lenné-Dreieck (Lenné-triangle): on the "western" side of the wall, but officially belonging to the East, so effectively a no-man's land.
* One of the iconic events precipitating the fall was in Sept 1989. Many (thousands) of East Germans had traveled to Prague, Czechoslovakia (not part of the USSR, but of the Eastern Bloc), and climbed over the fence of the West German embassy there, camping on the grounds. On 30 Sept, the foreign minister of West Germany (after long negotiations with USSR foreign minister Shevardnadse), Hans-Dietrich Genscher, appeared on the balcony to tell those refugees that they could go on to West Germany. The rest of the speech was basically drowned out by cheering as soon as the crowd heard "Ausreise". See here from about 1:20. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ov9IHjX8UF4
* Then, on 9 Nov 1989, the wall fell, and it was a surprisingly silly culmination of the revolution. The East German authorities knew that they couldn't carry on, and were planning to gradually open the borders from December onwards (given that people could flee via Czechoslovakia anyway). They started working on legislation, and there was lots of discussions going back and forth (would people that left be allowed to return, etc.) On Nov 9, they sent the first secretary of the party (Sozialistische Einheitspartei Deutschlands) in East Berlin, Günter Schabowski, on a press conference to talk about these plans, but he hadn't attended the deliberations and was basically reading from some notes he had been handed. An Italian reporter asked about it the border, and Schabowski announced these plans for liberalisation, live on TV. He was then asked when these would go into effect, and he shuffled around in those papers and said "as far as I know, that's applicable now, immediately". People stormed the border ("first gradually, then suddenly"), and the rest was history. See around 0:40 here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mn4VDwaV-oo
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#76I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#77I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.
~15 years ago I randomly wandered into an antifa vs police standoff in Berlin, just as it was forming. Surreal experience. Everyone knew where they were supposed to be, except for me. It felt like they had done it so many times before. I got out of there just in time. It's the only time I've seen large scale street violence. I don't think it belongs in a civilized society.
"...more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" [1] - Martin Luther King, Jr.
I wasn't there on the street with you 15 years ago. I don't know what the protestors were protesting (though "antifa", depending on how you use the term may suggest they were protesting a fascist/neo-nazi group).
But i include this quote only to say that you have to be careful to consider whether society is as civilized as those in power believe it is, and whether it can always be improved through other "civilized" manners.
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#78I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.
Out of curiosity, when? I walked down Bernauer Straße with my dog (from the Hundeplatz at Mauerpark to Nordbahnhof; I live relatively close-by) and didn't see anything unusual. I don't keep track of time well on a Friday at the dog park, but I'd guess that would have been around 20:00, give or take.
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#79Earlier quoted context omitted.
Can you say what was the reason that they were there? A protest?
The official commemoration ceremony with all German top politicians took place at Bernauer Straße. That was probably the reason why the street was blocked by police. https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/gedenken-an-mauerbau-steinmei...
Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
~15 years ago I randomly wandered into an antifa vs police standoff in Berlin, just as it was forming. Surreal experience. Everyone knew where they were supposed to be, except for me. It felt like they had done it so many times before. I got out of there just in time. It's the only time I've seen large scale street violence. I don't think it belongs in a civilized society.
> It's the only time I've seen large scale street violence. I don't think it belongs in a civilized society. "...more devoted to "order" than to justice; who prefers a negative peace which is the absence of tension to a positive peace which is the presence of justice; who constantly says "I agree with you in the goal you seek, but I can't agree with your methods of direct action;" [1] - Martin Luther King, Jr. I wasn…
MLK was very clear about what he meant by "justice", never tried to hide his identity, and didn't respond with violence.
"Antifa", on the other hand, aren't even honest about what they want. They call themselves anti-fascist, but they are anarchists, who dishonestly label any authority "fascist".