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Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

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Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#51

Post by seanmcdirmid »

rkachowski wrote: post #4

I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.

Maybe that was the point? To temporarily re-divide the city as part of the ceremony?

If not intentional now, I can see that kind of thing happening in the future.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#52

Post by sandworm101 »

f6v wrote: post #38
adsche wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the real estate market (esp. for renting out) actually dominated by private investors and their savings? Here in German cities, it feels like it's dominated by faceless investors and corporations but I have no data to back that up.

99.99% for-rent apartments I’ve seen in Western Europe were owned by some huge company. That’s a stark contrast to Eastern Europe where you’re much more likely to rent a privately owned property.

How many of those are actually privately owned but are only managed by the big bad corporation? It is often very hard to tell the difference.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#53

Post by seanmcdirmid »

fsckboy wrote: post #33
aerosmile wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russians' usage of the term antifascist certainly didn't age well, but it's worth noting that "fascists" is how all people in the world referred to certain Germans and Italians for a period of 25 years all up until 1945 (and the affected folks didn't mind that - in fact, the term was invented in Italy in 1915 and then adopted by Mussolini in 1918 and by Hitler in 1923 [0]). So for Russians to refer to Germans who…

> the term antifascist certainly didn't age well antifa? the political left has never stopped using the term fascist as a pejorative, it's thrown around quite liberally even today

Where is the line at to be drawn between nationalism and fascist ultra nationalism? The rise in nationalism in many countries is one thing, but as that nationalism becomes stronger it is too easy to see it as drifting into fascist territory.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#54

Post by nautilius »

pomian wrote: post #50
codeulike wrote: post #3

The idea of a city split into two by ideologically opposing factions, and the split being marked by a big wall, sounds like sci-fi now. Also, the idea that a physical barrier could affect the spread of information. Its interesting how much of 20th century history centers on Berlin. There's a wall museum in Berlin, well worth visiting. Edit: thanks for the reminders about contemporary split cities, sobering to think a…

Mexico USA border seems to a pretty strong example of a contemporary wall. Imagine what would happen if it was completely removed?

You mean all 700 miles of it along 2000 miles of border? I would guess nothing at all would change. No comparison to the German wall with minefields, self shooting devices, etc.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#55

Post by buran77 »

f6v wrote: post #38
adsche wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is the real estate market (esp. for renting out) actually dominated by private investors and their savings? Here in German cities, it feels like it's dominated by faceless investors and corporations but I have no data to back that up.

99.99% for-rent apartments I’ve seen in Western Europe were owned by some huge company. That’s a stark contrast to Eastern Europe where you’re much more likely to rent a privately owned property.

This may be because of local laws or city council rules. In many cities the developer of a complex today is forced by law to have a certain percentage of the development dedicated for rental (Munich I think may be the leader here with a proposed 80% for rental). The only way to achieve this is to have the apartments owned by the developer or handed over to another management company (or investor) for rental only.

It's also why you sometimes see a development with a several rows of houses meant for sale flanked by one or more apartment buildings with a far smaller footprint but enough floors to equal roughly the same usable area in order to get the project approved.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#56

Post by ostenning »

tpmx wrote: post #48
rkachowski wrote: post #4

I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.

~15 years ago I randomly wandered into an antifa vs police standoff in Berlin, just as it was forming. Surreal experience. Everyone knew where they were supposed to be, except for me. It felt like they had done it so many times before. I got out of there just in time. It's the only time I've seen large scale street violence. I don't think it belongs in a civilized society.

Nothing has changed, I witnessed a fairly violent antifa against police just recently

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#57

Post by ipaddr »

sdoering wrote: post #25
pydry wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IIRC west germany did end up welcoming some nazis back into government positions so from their standpoint it probably seemed fairly reasonable. There were still Nazis everywhere in postwar berlin.

They did. Same with the US inviting Third Reich scientists. Or BND, CIA, MI5 and others inviting HVA (Stasi foreign spy agency) people into their ranks. What, except maybe that states are immoral and opportunistic, does these things tell us? I am not sure. Maybe I am missing net positive things as outcomes from these behaviors. But to me neither example is good.

Using those scientists to made the bomb to end the war was one positive outcome.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#58

Post by johannes1234321 »

buran77 wrote: post #55
f6v wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

99.99% for-rent apartments I’ve seen in Western Europe were owned by some huge company. That’s a stark contrast to Eastern Europe where you’re much more likely to rent a privately owned property.

This may be because of local laws or city council rules. In many cities the developer of a complex today is forced by law to have a certain percentage of the development dedicated for rental (Munich I think may be the leader here with a proposed 80% for rental). The only way to achieve this is to have the apartments owned by the developer or handed over to another management company (or investor) for rental only. It'…

actually in Germany 60% of the appartments are owned by private individuals 10% state/local governments, 10% coops (Genossenschaft), and the reminder corporations. (While statistics differ a bit depending on where you draw the line between some private owner and a corporation for auch a statistic) https://www.savills.de/insight-and-opinion/savills-news/2756... is one survey with some numbers

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#59

Post by bogomipz »

rkachowski wrote: post #4

I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.

Can you say what was the reason that they were there? A protest?

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#60

Post by gadders »

pomian wrote: post #50
codeulike wrote: post #3

The idea of a city split into two by ideologically opposing factions, and the split being marked by a big wall, sounds like sci-fi now. Also, the idea that a physical barrier could affect the spread of information. Its interesting how much of 20th century history centers on Berlin. There's a wall museum in Berlin, well worth visiting. Edit: thanks for the reminders about contemporary split cities, sobering to think a…

Mexico USA border seems to a pretty strong example of a contemporary wall. Imagine what would happen if it was completely removed?

The Berlin Wall was to stop people escaping. The US border Wall is to stop people coming in.
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