Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

dw.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 95 posts

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#41

Post by f6v »

fsckboy wrote: post #33
aerosmile wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russians' usage of the term antifascist certainly didn't age well, but it's worth noting that "fascists" is how all people in the world referred to certain Germans and Italians for a period of 25 years all up until 1945 (and the affected folks didn't mind that - in fact, the term was invented in Italy in 1915 and then adopted by Mussolini in 1918 and by Hitler in 1923 [0]). So for Russians to refer to Germans who…

> the term antifascist certainly didn't age well antifa? the political left has never stopped using the term fascist as a pejorative, it's thrown around quite liberally even today

Sometimes I get lost in public discussions these days. Everyone is “fascist”, “far-right”, and “leftist” at the same time.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#42

Post by aerosmile »

fsckboy wrote: post #33
aerosmile wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Russians' usage of the term antifascist certainly didn't age well, but it's worth noting that "fascists" is how all people in the world referred to certain Germans and Italians for a period of 25 years all up until 1945 (and the affected folks didn't mind that - in fact, the term was invented in Italy in 1915 and then adopted by Mussolini in 1918 and by Hitler in 1923 [0]). So for Russians to refer to Germans who…

> the term antifascist certainly didn't age well antifa? the political left has never stopped using the term fascist as a pejorative, it's thrown around quite liberally even today

I said specifically "the Russians' usage of the term..."

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#43

Post by aerosmile »

f6v wrote: post #41
fsckboy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the term antifascist certainly didn't age well antifa? the political left has never stopped using the term fascist as a pejorative, it's thrown around quite liberally even today

Sometimes I get lost in public discussions these days. Everyone is “fascist”, “far-right”, and “leftist” at the same time.

Far-left and far-right ideologies have more in common than many people realize (including the people within those factions). They are both based on the principle on low tolerance, and as such they are well-aligned on the idea of strict enforcement of their ideologies.

There are some hilarious misconceptions that members of those factions have about their own ideologies. Far-left is against the police brutality, but there is a 100 year history of perfect correlation between leftist regimes and policy brutality.

Far-right is against government interventions in all economic matters, but that also has never materialized anywhere else.

The bottom line is that anything that's far-something requires suppression of the society's natural tendency to return to the center.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#44

Post by user-the-name »

f6v wrote: post #41
fsckboy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the term antifascist certainly didn't age well antifa? the political left has never stopped using the term fascist as a pejorative, it's thrown around quite liberally even today

Sometimes I get lost in public discussions these days. Everyone is “fascist”, “far-right”, and “leftist” at the same time.

That sounds entirely like a problem with you not making any effort to understand what is discussed rather than anyone else's problem.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#45

Post by SerLava »

mattr47 wrote: post #18
perihelions wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The idea of a city split into two by ideologically opposing factions, and the split being marked by a big wall, sounds like sci-fi now." Current reality in Nicosia (capital of Cyprus, a EU nation). https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Buffer_Zone_in_... > "The Turkish army has built a barrier on the zone's northern side, consisting mainly of barbed-wire fencing, concrete wall segments, watchtowers, anti-tank…

Big difference between Berlin and Nicosia/Lefkoşa. I lived for 2 years (2010-2012) in the North as a westerner and while the division certainly affects the Island, it is nothing like Berlin in the Cold War. Healing and forgiveness, on both sides, must occur before reunification.

>Healing and forgiveness, on both sides, must occur before reunification.

I have an instinctive reaction to that type of language now - it makes me wonder if one side has dramatically more fault than the other

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#46

Post by argvargc »

jasonvorhe wrote: post #36
keewee7 wrote: post #14

The East German authorities called the wall "Anti-Fascist Protection Border". >The Eastern Bloc portrayed the Wall as protecting its population from fascist elements conspiring to prevent the "will of the people" from building a socialist state in East Germany. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berlin_Wall

What's your point though? That building walls is a useless endeavour or that anti-fascism is evil becay an anti-democratic state abused the term for propaganda reasons? If it's the latter, I hope you'll never look into the historic use of terms such as democracy, freedom/liberty or "free elections".

Not the OP but I think you've made their point quite well.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#47

Post by mbg721 »

codeulike wrote: post #3

The idea of a city split into two by ideologically opposing factions, and the split being marked by a big wall, sounds like sci-fi now. Also, the idea that a physical barrier could affect the spread of information. Its interesting how much of 20th century history centers on Berlin. There's a wall museum in Berlin, well worth visiting. Edit: thanks for the reminders about contemporary split cities, sobering to think a…

Having the subway run under the other side's territory and just skip stations is the part that really feels sci-fi/cyberpunk to me.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#48

Post by tpmx »

rkachowski wrote: post #4

I live in Berlin, I tried to cycle home yesterday past Bernauer Strasse (pictured) but the police had completely blocked off the whole region with barricades and around 20 police wagons. I'm pretty sure the irony of commemorating the Berlin wall and its fall via people with guns stopping the public from crossing was lost on them.

~15 years ago I randomly wandered into an antifa vs police standoff in Berlin, just as it was forming. Surreal experience. Everyone knew where they were supposed to be, except for me. It felt like they had done it so many times before.

I got out of there just in time. It's the only time I've seen large scale street violence. I don't think it belongs in a civilized society.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#49

Post by f6v »

user-the-name wrote: post #44
f6v wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I get lost in public discussions these days. Everyone is “fascist”, “far-right”, and “leftist” at the same time.

That sounds entirely like a problem with you not making any effort to understand what is discussed rather than anyone else's problem.

Or maybe it’s people who didn’t do well in school don’t know what a fascist regime looks like.

Re: Berlin, a divided city. The events of 60 years ago

#50

Post by pomian »

codeulike wrote: post #3

The idea of a city split into two by ideologically opposing factions, and the split being marked by a big wall, sounds like sci-fi now. Also, the idea that a physical barrier could affect the spread of information. Its interesting how much of 20th century history centers on Berlin. There's a wall museum in Berlin, well worth visiting. Edit: thanks for the reminders about contemporary split cities, sobering to think a…

Mexico USA border seems to a pretty strong example of a contemporary wall. Imagine what would happen if it was completely removed?
Post reply on HN