Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

cbc.ca

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 163 posts

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#121

Post by graeme »

jorgesborges wrote: post #108
graeme wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you hang out in an antivax crowd? Vaccine passport are enormously popular in Canada. https://www.ipsos.com/en-ca/news-polls/majority-support-vacc... I couldn’t find Quebec specific data, but I live here and haven’t seen anything to suggest people view them differently.

Not everyone who opposes a vaccine passport belongs to an "antivax" crowd. I've encountered a lot of a variance on the issue, often in surprising contexts. I was at the dentist last week and after vetting me mildly she explained there's a faction of their practice who oppose mandatory vaccines. She said they formed a group to share and discuss the issue and engage with other health care professionals who may not be a…

No but about 80% of adults are vaccinated and about 70% in Canada support vaccine passport.

So there isn’t much wiggle room. Unless a good swath of the unvaccinated support vaccine passports….

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#122

Post by fzzzy »

mindslight wrote: post #33
fzzzy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically everyone with a current cash position is paying for it.

Yes, but they've been printing money continually for decades. So at least this installment is going to something with a deliberate and good purpose, rather than just bidding up the housing and stock markets as most of it does.

Going directly to The People(tm) you mean? Yes, I think it has been more beneficial for more people this time, but also, during qe after 2008 the govt. was able to basically "buy back" that money by recovering the losses after markets recovered, then shredding those dollars. This time, I don't think that will be possible.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#123

Post by fzzzy »

foepys wrote: post #67
fzzzy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically everyone with a current cash position is paying for it.

Stocks are also not immune. The extreme rise in recent years is arguably because of cheap money.

Aren't stocks going up in value compared to cash positions when taking inflation into account, though? Or are you saying inflation is actually eating all of the stock market's supposed gains?

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#124

Post by f6v »

underseacables wrote: post #5
f6v wrote: post #3

Germany is now giving the dozes away as there's low demand. I wonder if the same rules will be in place in Europe.

Who is actually paying for all of this? America is giving away doses, but for some reason I can’t fathom the drug companies doing this out of the goodness of their hearts. If there’s all this money laying around for COVID doses, ad everybody gets a shot no questions asked, maybe they could put that same energy behind insulin!

The federal government seems to be paying the bill in Germany.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#125

Post by whatever_dude »

MichaelZuo wrote: post #4

It’s surprising since an 81% vaccination rate is already near the top of forecasts. Will a 90% or 95% rate make that much of a difference to justify forcing people to do so?

That's general population, not traveling population. A traveler can be a vector of infection in more ways than someone who stays local.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#126

Post by mindslight »

fzzzy wrote: post #122
mindslight wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, but they've been printing money continually for decades. So at least this installment is going to something with a deliberate and good purpose, rather than just bidding up the housing and stock markets as most of it does.

Going directly to The People(tm) you mean? Yes, I think it has been more beneficial for more people this time, but also, during qe after 2008 the govt. was able to basically "buy back" that money by recovering the losses after markets recovered, then shredding those dollars. This time, I don't think that will be possible.

Yes, individual welfare is better for our society than corporate welfare. Philosophically I shy away from both, but it's foolish to argue against the former while the latter gets a complete pass from both major parties. This political dynamic is one of the major factors underpinning our growing wealth divide.

Even though the Fed eventually got those 2008 dollars back, they still affected the market (otherwise what would have been the point). The losers were those who were prudently (imprudently, apparently) holding cash, and would have otherwise received higher interest rates due to the demand. By creating new temporary dollars for bailouts, the Fed destroyed that demand. And the moral hazard allowed companies to keep loading up on debt such that they needed another bailout for Covid, which was reflexively carried out without any objections from congress.

These new dollars never coming back in will be a good thing long term, as creating direct price inflation will prevent the Fed from being able to continue lowering rates and thus prevents them from creating even more asset inflation than they already have.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#127

Post by fzzzy »

adventured wrote: post #32
fzzzy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So basically everyone with a current cash position is paying for it.

Primarily the people holding the ~$137 trillion in US household assets are paying for it (along with the share of all USD-priced assets being held by foreigners). Very little of that value is held in cash. Anything priced in dollars is affected, not just USD cash positions. US housing is priced in dollars, as one example. If they 'print' large sums to fund the forever budget deficits, it also debases the value of US…

Good points, thanks. The point I was trying to make is just that cash positions will bear the brunt of the money printing. Outstanding mortgage and other debt still benefits from the low interest rates and the fact that cheaper money in the future will pay back the loan.

Do you think inflation will fall back to normal levels because consumers will not have enough money to pay for the inflated prices producers will be demanding? If that causes US growth to implode as you hypothesize, I think that will lead to quite a depression. Interest rates at 0 can't help at that point.

If they keep sending people stimulus checks forever, it seems that portends extreme continued inflation, since the govt. is giving out free dollars with no way to reclaim them in the future. So I really feel the most realistic outcome for the US is the Japan scenario unfortunately.

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#129

Post by fzzzy »

mindslight wrote: post #126
fzzzy wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going directly to The People(tm) you mean? Yes, I think it has been more beneficial for more people this time, but also, during qe after 2008 the govt. was able to basically "buy back" that money by recovering the losses after markets recovered, then shredding those dollars. This time, I don't think that will be possible.

Yes, individual welfare is better for our society than corporate welfare. Philosophically I shy away from both, but it's foolish to argue against the former while the latter gets a complete pass from both major parties. This political dynamic is one of the major factors underpinning our growing wealth divide. Even though the Fed eventually got those 2008 dollars back, they still affected the market (otherwise what wo…

Totally agree about the moral hazard problem. And I'll have to research how direct price inflation is going to prevent the fed from being able to continue to lower rates. Thanks!

Re: Canada to require vaccinations for air and train passengers

#130

Post by mindslight »

fzzzy wrote: post #129
mindslight wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, individual welfare is better for our society than corporate welfare. Philosophically I shy away from both, but it's foolish to argue against the former while the latter gets a complete pass from both major parties. This political dynamic is one of the major factors underpinning our growing wealth divide. Even though the Fed eventually got those 2008 dollars back, they still affected the market (otherwise what wo…

Totally agree about the moral hazard problem. And I'll have to research how direct price inflation is going to prevent the fed from being able to continue to lower rates. Thanks!

It's straightforward. One of their chief mandates is to keep the CPI at a specific level of price inflation (2%). But their chief tool of lowering interest rates doesn't directly affect the CPI, as all the new money goes to the financial industry rather than to consumers. The CPI only goes up after that new money gets divvied up and spent on new ventures, and after asset valuations finally make it into the monthly cost of housing (which only occurs after they've raised the rates for other reasons, as (new) mortgage payments stay the same until then).
Post reply on HN