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Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

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Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#11

Post by ajj »

Until recently, I thought that the patents issue was a PITA, but not that big of a deal, and something that would eventually pass after a lot of damage is done.

Now, I really believe that unless things change, the US is going to have a lot of trouble attracting new businesses to start at home, or foreign companies providing services in the US. Spotify will run their own cost benefit analysis of fighting the lawsuit versus attracting future revenue. Many small services that cannot afford an upfront lawsuit in the hope of future American revenue will just not open shop or services for the US.

It hurts me to see how the patent system is screwing with every damn thing. As they say for startups, competition from other countries won't hurt America, but inefficiencies and bad decisions within would. And IMHO the risk is not hypothetical anymore.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#12

Post by rkalla »

MrVitaliy wrote: post #8
jameskilton wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but I have to imagine that one simple rule would bring back the validity of patents as an innovation protector: If you have a patent, you MUST have a product or be working on a product using the technology in question or you cannot litigate others using your idea. Patents are required to protect the truly innovative individuals and groups from huge corporations who can, as you said, just steamroll them and stea…

That rule is easily circumvented. Just write a 10 line python script that references the patent. Release it as MyPatentApp version 1.0 and we're back to litigation square 1. I believe that in such a quickly changing engineering landscape as software, best way to fix patent troll problem is to make software patents expire in 2-3 years.

Hrrmmm... good point.

So all that would do is require patent trolls to keep around a small development team to mockup wrappers to whatever IP they buy up to show they wrote it?

I suppose the due-diligence requires to disprove shenanigans wouldn't scale and could easily be gamed by reams and reams of "source code" that actually did nothing described in the patent but was sufficiently complex so as to confuse.

This makes me think your approach to expiring them after a short period of time is the right approach to start with.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#13

Post by AndyJPartridge »

rkalla wrote: post #3

I am really curious if an event like this will eventually promote change in the software patent laws. We've been watching events like Lodsys running around kicking everyone in the knees and international developers pulling their apps out of the app store out of fear of litigation[1] while Apple seems unable[3] to actively step in and protect its developers. Then you have other patent trolls sitting around, biding the…

>I am really curious if an event like this will eventually promote change in the software patent laws.

Me too. I'm thinking that the Apple/Lodsys one has the best chance of making a change, as for Apple so much is at stake.

I don't know how it is over in the US, but here in the UK the whole issue isn't really high profile, even with stakes as high as they are. (IE. HTC not being able to sell mobiles if the patent decision is upheld in December.)

One thing is for sure, I for one would not put any app in a US app store, which is a shame for me and my potential customers.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#14

Post by paulgb »

MrVitaliy wrote: post #8
jameskilton wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but I have to imagine that one simple rule would bring back the validity of patents as an innovation protector: If you have a patent, you MUST have a product or be working on a product using the technology in question or you cannot litigate others using your idea. Patents are required to protect the truly innovative individuals and groups from huge corporations who can, as you said, just steamroll them and stea…

That rule is easily circumvented. Just write a 10 line python script that references the patent. Release it as MyPatentApp version 1.0 and we're back to litigation square 1. I believe that in such a quickly changing engineering landscape as software, best way to fix patent troll problem is to make software patents expire in 2-3 years.

I've heard an (apocryphal) story about a bubble-gum brand that protected an otherwise unused trade name by manufacturing and selling one stick of gum under that brand each year.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#15

Post by meow »

It is Spotify today, which is just a music streaming service.. for which a lot of other alternatives already exist. It could be a high-tech foreign robotics company in future which might just decide not to market products in US or worse price them much higher factoring in all the litigation fee...

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#16

Post by joejohnson »

Everytime something like this is posted on HN, people say in the comments "I hope this will push patent reform". I feel like this issue has been brought to light a lot recently, but is this just my bias as an HN reader? Have lawsuits and patent fights been going on for many years, or is it escalating right now?

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#17

Post by thesis »

base wrote: post #10

One of the problems is that this companies don't have anything to loose by bringing these lawsuits. They just have to fill some papers electronically, pay a few hundred dollars and the other party have to loose thousands of dollars to protect itself.

I'm not for these patent trolls at all... but litigation costs money on both sides, not just defending.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#18

Post by monochromatic »

This patent was filed in 1995 [edit: and it actually claims priority back to 1994]. Was there really much relevant prior art in this space back then?

One other comment: I really appreciate that techdirt actually included a claim from the patent. Most articles posted here just quote the title or the abstract, which is useless as far as determining what's covered and what's not.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#19

Post by amikula »

MrVitaliy wrote: post #8
jameskilton wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IANAL but I have to imagine that one simple rule would bring back the validity of patents as an innovation protector: If you have a patent, you MUST have a product or be working on a product using the technology in question or you cannot litigate others using your idea. Patents are required to protect the truly innovative individuals and groups from huge corporations who can, as you said, just steamroll them and stea…

That rule is easily circumvented. Just write a 10 line python script that references the patent. Release it as MyPatentApp version 1.0 and we're back to litigation square 1. I believe that in such a quickly changing engineering landscape as software, best way to fix patent troll problem is to make software patents expire in 2-3 years.

I completely agree that software patents should expire in 2-3 years. Even a 2 year advantage is an eternity in the software market.

Re: Spotify Sued For Patent Infringement Just Weeks After Entering US Market

#20

Post by untog »

joejohnson wrote: post #16

Everytime something like this is posted on HN, people say in the comments "I hope this will push patent reform". I feel like this issue has been brought to light a lot recently, but is this just my bias as an HN reader? Have lawsuits and patent fights been going on for many years, or is it escalating right now?

This Forbes article: http://blogs.forbes.com/timothylee/2011/07/28/the-supreme-co...

Makes a neat argument that software patent arguments are finally entering the mainstream.

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