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Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

engadget.com

51–58 of 58 posts

Re: Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

#51
post #47

I don't think the issue here is (just) optical drive vs no optical drive. Its the implications that are pointed to in the article, i.e. Apple controlling the hardware, software and content on the device. Of course, Apple will not do this completely overnight, but it does seem like we're moving in that direction one step at a time. I think Apple/Steve's long term vision has always been for the PC to be like all other…

I've been hearing this for a couple years, and I even had some people mistakenly telling me they don't get a MacBook because they think it only runs Apple-approved software. I don't really think it's gonna happen. "It runs Windows" is a major selling point for a lot of people I know. But I'll be the first to jump ship if this ever happens.

The MBPs are still pretty good and parts that I want to replace are still user serviceable (RAM, HD, optical drive - everyone should replace theirs with a 2nd HD).

The Mac Minis still have user replaceable RAM but the HD is not super easy to get to.

The iMac is pretty bad. You need suction cups to remove the screen from the body to service it.

I don't think they are going to bother too much about what software you can run. But hopefully they make basic parts like the HD and RAM MORE user serviceable.

Re: Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

#52
post #35
post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Need, of course not. That being said, internal drives make ripping significantly more convenient and, hence, more common (which still means incentives for ulterior motives). Defaults matter a lot and having to opt into an optical drive will make a significant difference in practice no matter how cheap and easy opting in is. Also, if Apple is really done with the optical drive, the day will come when they won't sell t…

What’s inconvenient about ordering an external drive from Amazon? It’s cheaper than Apple’s drive, anyway, and you can do it right now. There won’t be third party options – because said third party options are already here and cheap and available everywhere. There is no need for stupid conspiracy theories. Optical media is done. It makes sense to longer include it by default. And if you really believe that there will…

I think you misunderstand me, so I'll try to clarify.

I'm not saying that ordering a third-party drive from Amazon is some insurmountable obstacle, I'm saying it is a small inconvenience that will result in a measurable difference in behavior because defaults matter (often much more than we think - see the studies on opt-in vs opt-out 401(k) enrollment).

I'm also not arguing that there will be a smaller selection of ripped movies on bittorrent or whatever. I'm arguing people will use ripped movies less and, in particular, will use rips of their own collections less (and even watch their own collections less on their computer, but I think that effect is less interesting) because the optical drive is less convenient:

- they're less likely to have it at all (as argued above)

- it might not be at hand when you want to use it (particularly if you're not at home)

- using an external drive is flat-out physically less convenient than an internal one (particularly if you need to keep your drive and computer plugged in and/or have other peripherals in the mix...)

Why would it matter that people are ripping their own collections less? Because the norms around ripping your own collection come from CD ripping and the norms around downloading movies from bittorrent come from piracy. Many more people are willing to do the former than the latter. In other words, ripping your own collection is very useful and is fundamentally different from pirating. The convenience of ripping DVDs you own is an important factor that will affect people's video consumption and I think that effect is growing with time.

I'm also not claiming that there is a complex conspiracy going on. I'm saying that, from a consumer's perspective, Apple's judgment about whether or not "the optical drive is done" is compromised. For that matter, this compromised judgment may manifest itself consciously or unconsciously.

Apple decision-makers might unconsciously make any or all of the following mistakes (as well as others):

- underestimating the usability of DVD rips

- overestimating the usability of iTunes video by not considering niche drawbacks (e.g. subtitle issues)

- underestimating the desire of people to have video on non-Apple devices (e.g. Android phones or tablets)

To put it another way: Even though Apple has better technical judgment overall, I'm more willing to trust Lenovo or Dell's judgment about whether or not "the optical drive is done" because they don't face the same conflicts of interest that Apple does.

Re: Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

#53
post #52
post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s inconvenient about ordering an external drive from Amazon? It’s cheaper than Apple’s drive, anyway, and you can do it right now. There won’t be third party options – because said third party options are already here and cheap and available everywhere. There is no need for stupid conspiracy theories. Optical media is done. It makes sense to longer include it by default. And if you really believe that there will…

I think you misunderstand me, so I'll try to clarify. I'm not saying that ordering a third-party drive from Amazon is some insurmountable obstacle, I'm saying it is a small inconvenience that will result in a measurable difference in behavior because defaults matter (often much more than we think - see the studies on opt-in vs opt-out 401(k) enrollment). I'm also not arguing that there will be a smaller selection of…

Who rips movies? That’s even nerdier than ripping CDs which also hardly anyone does. It doesn’t matter. Pirating has to be far more prevalent than ripping movies.

I’m not sure what all that judgment talk of yours is about. Optical drives are done for me personally. I have no use whatsoever for an internal optical drive and I actually can’t think of anyone I know who would really need one. I will certainly never ever again buy a PC with an internal optical drive. That has nothing to do with Apple’s choices. It’s my personal choice and I will be very happy if Apple will sell me a product that fits my personal choice. If not I will have to buy something else.

What do I care for Apple’s reasons? (I don’t think they are absurd like you paint them.)

Re: Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

#55
post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been hearing this for a couple years, and I even had some people mistakenly telling me they don't get a MacBook because they think it only runs Apple-approved software. I don't really think it's gonna happen. "It runs Windows" is a major selling point for a lot of people I know. But I'll be the first to jump ship if this ever happens.

The MBPs are still pretty good and parts that I want to replace are still user serviceable (RAM, HD, optical drive - everyone should replace theirs with a 2nd HD). The Mac Minis still have user replaceable RAM but the HD is not super easy to get to. The iMac is pretty bad. You need suction cups to remove the screen from the body to service it. I don't think they are going to bother too much about what software you ca…

A second HD in place of the optical drive? I never thought it was possible. Sounds like a plan for my recording rig: the SSD plus a bigger mechanical drive.

Re: Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

#57
post #53
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think you misunderstand me, so I'll try to clarify. I'm not saying that ordering a third-party drive from Amazon is some insurmountable obstacle, I'm saying it is a small inconvenience that will result in a measurable difference in behavior because defaults matter (often much more than we think - see the studies on opt-in vs opt-out 401(k) enrollment). I'm also not arguing that there will be a smaller selection of…

Who rips movies? That’s even nerdier than ripping CDs which also hardly anyone does. It doesn’t matter. Pirating has to be far more prevalent than ripping movies. I’m not sure what all that judgment talk of yours is about. Optical drives are done for me personally. I have no use whatsoever for an internal optical drive and I actually can’t think of anyone I know who would really need one. I will certainly never ever…

I happen to care more about DVD ripping because I like it and I think it is going to become bigger, but most of my argument also holds if you're talking about watching DVDs on your laptop or desktop instead (which is completely mainstream).

That being said, where did you get the idea that ripping CDs is nerdy? Where do you think the legions of iPods Apple has sold have gotten the overwhelming majority of their music? iTunes took plenty of time to get to where it is today and ripping was where (most of) the rest of the iPod music came from. To take a personal example, my wife has had an iPod for almost 6 years. Her iTunes Library is at least 80% ripped (maybe even 90%) despite the fact that she buys plenty of music from iTunes. Why? She had a substantial CD collection she ripped to start with. She also didn't stop buying CDs (things that you can't get on iTunes, autographed CDs or special attributes, new or used CDs on sale for less than they'd be on iTunes, ...).

I'm also not claiming that Apple's reasons are absurd. I'm just saying that they have structural and institutional biases that might lead them to come to an incorrect conclusion about this particular point: the value of an optical drive. In other words, even though Apple has a pretty good batting average on these sorts of choices, there are reasons to think they might be wrong (in terms of what people will actually value) in this specific case.

Re: Apple's officially over the optical drive, for better or worse

#58
post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I had a place to stream it from, I could easily stream an HD movie with my connection. It's not like in the future /less/ people are going to have fast internet!

You are both correct and very blessed to have such a good connection. In my experience, even people with decent internet speed seldom see that speed sustained for the entirety of a large download or stream. A Blu-Ray disk holds 50GB. At a 10Mb/s connection (fairly common in the US), that would take over 11 hours to download, assuming no interruptions. Even at 100Mb/s it would take about an hour. Assuming you're strea…

H.264 at 10mbit/s looks OK to me. I can wait for it to buffer — it's still faster than getting getting it by snail mail.
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