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Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

phys.technion.ac.il

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Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#21

Weren't there already several solutions known? Wikipedia seems to think so. I find it hard to see if there's anything here that makes this different from the several cases mentioned on wikipedia. The linked paper was too dense for me, sadly... https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three-body_problem

the wikipedia page lists several solutions for special cases and a general solution, which is unusable.

the article talks about an effective solution, which would mark a major step forward.

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#23

It's an already solved problem given you set the initial conditions.

I guess this is downvoted because the initial conditions allude to numerical integration which isn't considered a proper "solution". Nevertheless, indeed the three-body (as well the n-body albeit with restrictions) has an analytic solution in form of power series. When people say it doesn't have one they mean in a closed-form. The research here isn't a solution (it doesn't allow one to find the exact state of the bodies at some specific later time) but rather a stochastic predictor of the behavior of the system.

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#24
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be deterministic. But they are unpredictable. Minuscule fluctuations (coming from influence of some much smaller bodies, that are not in the model, or approximations in calculations) can lead to dramatic differences in the outcome. So theoretically speaking, they are deterministic, but practically they are unpredictable.

Huh? If this is the case, wouldn’t a 2 body problem also be practically impossible to calculate? I mean, you can certainly still predict to a certain (probably high) level of accuracy, but ultimately that motion is also influenced by factors outside your model.

[deleted]

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#26
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be deterministic. But they are unpredictable. Minuscule fluctuations (coming from influence of some much smaller bodies, that are not in the model, or approximations in calculations) can lead to dramatic differences in the outcome. So theoretically speaking, they are deterministic, but practically they are unpredictable.

Huh? If this is the case, wouldn’t a 2 body problem also be practically impossible to calculate? I mean, you can certainly still predict to a certain (probably high) level of accuracy, but ultimately that motion is also influenced by factors outside your model.

The question is what happens with a small perturbation and how does it "grow".

For a two body problem, you nudge one of the bodies and it is forever off by a small amount, but your predictions into infinity require only a small adjustment to compensate.

For a three body problem you nudge one of the bodies and only for a very short time do your previous predictions stay true, the change amplifies until nothing you thought might happen before the nudge means anything at all, and a common occurrence is one of the bodies being ejected.

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#27
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be deterministic. But they are unpredictable. Minuscule fluctuations (coming from influence of some much smaller bodies, that are not in the model, or approximations in calculations) can lead to dramatic differences in the outcome. So theoretically speaking, they are deterministic, but practically they are unpredictable.

Huh? If this is the case, wouldn’t a 2 body problem also be practically impossible to calculate? I mean, you can certainly still predict to a certain (probably high) level of accuracy, but ultimately that motion is also influenced by factors outside your model.

For a two-body problem the discrepancies between your model and reality increase gradually with time, but it's still possible to predict eclipses decades in advance with a precise albeit imperfect measurement of initial conditions.

With a three-body problem any slight shift causes a wildly different trajectory, bearing no resemblance to the original so your measurements of the initial condition have to be perfect.

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#28
post #19
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They would be deterministic. But they are unpredictable. Minuscule fluctuations (coming from influence of some much smaller bodies, that are not in the model, or approximations in calculations) can lead to dramatic differences in the outcome. So theoretically speaking, they are deterministic, but practically they are unpredictable.

Huh? If this is the case, wouldn’t a 2 body problem also be practically impossible to calculate? I mean, you can certainly still predict to a certain (probably high) level of accuracy, but ultimately that motion is also influenced by factors outside your model.

No, the fundamental difference is that the two-body problem can be solved analytically, you can write down a formula. For three bodies and up you only have numerical solutions, simulations, and they will break down over time.

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#29
post #27
post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? If this is the case, wouldn’t a 2 body problem also be practically impossible to calculate? I mean, you can certainly still predict to a certain (probably high) level of accuracy, but ultimately that motion is also influenced by factors outside your model.

For a two-body problem the discrepancies between your model and reality increase gradually with time, but it's still possible to predict eclipses decades in advance with a precise albeit imperfect measurement of initial conditions. With a three-body problem any slight shift causes a wildly different trajectory, bearing no resemblance to the original so your measurements of the initial condition have to be perfect.

No that's not it. The two body problem has a closed, analytical solution, the three body one doesn't, so you need to simulate it. It's a fundamentally different approach.

Re: Scientists find an effective solution for the three-body problem

#30

When they say motions of three bodies are random and unpredictable, I assume they mean not able to be modeled with a closed form equation? Seems like the motions would still be entirely deterministic — could still predict the locations of the bodies computationally, given your computer computes faster than reality (at least for a reality with only 3 bodies), no?

There are cases in classical mechanics that fail to be deterministic.

https://physics.stackexchange.com/questions/403574/what-situ...

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