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Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

reuters.com

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Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#71

Post by bawolff »

bamboozled wrote: post #61
foepys wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you ever have the flu? I bet you didn't and if you think you did, you probably had a cold instead. A runny nose, headaches, and a sore throat doesn't mean you got the flu. The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. You will feel like somebody ran you over with a truck. It's not fun, it's highly dangerous.

Why do people always says this? I've had the flu, I'm sure nearly everyone has had it once. It's not really incredibly uncommon.

People do tend to conflate all sorts of "coughs" together as the "flu", including many illnesses that are a lot more mild than the flu.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#72

Post by bawolff »

mdbug wrote: post #6
ipspam wrote: post #3

$60 billion for two years worth of shots? Sounds like a steal. Covid has cost the global economy Trillions and Trillions of dollars already, and all the downstream costs will probably add up to $100 trillion real dollars when factoring in inflation, money printing, national debt, state/provincial debts/local debts/consumer debt increases.

The costs of the pandemic are one side. The other is the cost of developing and producing the vaccines. In a normal market situation, prices are determined by supply and demand. But that's really not such a situation here. The question from the government's point of view has to be whether you could have had the vaccine cheaper. After all, large sums of money have already been invested by the states for research and d…

> In a normal market situation, prices are determined by supply and demand.

Indeed supply is severely limited (esp. Outside rich countries, but even inside rich countries if you go back a few months) and demand is extreme.

If this was a free market situation, pfizer would have much much more money.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#73

Post by mdbug »

rualca wrote: post #26
mdbug wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The costs of the pandemic are one side. The other is the cost of developing and producing the vaccines. In a normal market situation, prices are determined by supply and demand. But that's really not such a situation here. The question from the government's point of view has to be whether you could have had the vaccine cheaper. After all, large sums of money have already been invested by the states for research and d…

> In a normal market situation, prices are determined by supply and demand. But that's really not such a situation here. Isn't it exactly the situation here? I mean, a few months ago we even had central governments bid against their own local governments to have access to vaccines. Doesn't that lay out quite clearly that this is a demand-driven market?

The market is not normal because countries have invested massive sums of money into these companies without acquiring shares in return, so I just hope they have negotiated other terms to get the vaccines at fair prices.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#74

Post by unmole »

rajin444 wrote: post #50
seoaeu wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taxpayers want to avoid dying and these corporations want to sell them a vaccine to achieve that. Seems like a nearly perfect alignment of interests to me

That is by no means a fair exchange. You'll do anything to save your life.

Anything in this case is spending about 40 USD per head. That seems incredibly cheap?

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#75

Post by tinus_hn »

BurningFrog wrote: post #28
poof131 wrote: post #13

What I don’t understand is how we can shut down the economy with a huge impact on small businesses, but not force the drug manufactures to share the capability with the rest of the world. We complain about the unvaccinated in the US and the possibility of mutations, but then don’t do everything we can to help vaccinate the world and prevent mutations. And Russia and China are sharing the less effective vaccines they…

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

Government could have easily forced a reasonable license where the original manufacturer gets paid per shot but is not in a position to limit availability. They are not the only ones able to manufacture these vaccines.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#76

Post by mdbug »

rank0 wrote: post #22

I actually have no problem with pharma companies seeing huge profits from the covid vaccines. Should they not be compensated for their extremely difficult/impactful work? Why won’t someone else do it for cheaper?

If they had taken the risks and incurred the costs of development themselves, of course. But they were massively subsidized. In that case, the state should either get a share of the profits or negotiate fair prices that exclude all too huge profits.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#77

Post by poof131 »

bawolff wrote: post #68
poof131 wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a straw man argument. They’ve made billions and will make billions more. Nothing is being given away for free. But currently, it is in their financial interests for this pandemic to go on indefinitely with continued mutations and a never-ending need for boosters. And our free market always seems to tilt in favor of monopolies. Shut down small businesses but don’t put any pressure on big pharma. Similar to 2008…

Please forgive my personal pet peeve, but nothing BurningFrog said was a straw man as far as i can tell. I don't see any way they misrepresented your argument.

“Giving away their vaccine” is the straw man. There is a huge range between free and maximum profits. I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t be incentivized with a profit, the question is how much and what's in the best interest of the American people, not just Pfizer and Moderna.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#78

Post by creato »

poof131 wrote: post #53
BurningFrog wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Forcing vaccine manufacturers to give away their vaccine creates strong incentives against inventing vaccines. It works once, but the next pandemic may happen without any vaccines. The consensual, win-win way is to buy vaccines from the manufacturers, at high prices. This makes manufacturers wealthy by making people healthy and aligns incentives for the common good.

That’s a straw man argument. They’ve made billions and will make billions more. Nothing is being given away for free. But currently, it is in their financial interests for this pandemic to go on indefinitely with continued mutations and a never-ending need for boosters. And our free market always seems to tilt in favor of monopolies. Shut down small businesses but don’t put any pressure on big pharma. Similar to 2008…

This reads like a copy/paste of the usual comments on HN about big tech, but almost none of it actually applies to most vaccine manufacturers.

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#79

Post by creato »

poof131 wrote: post #77
bawolff wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please forgive my personal pet peeve, but nothing BurningFrog said was a straw man as far as i can tell. I don't see any way they misrepresented your argument.

“Giving away their vaccine” is the straw man. There is a huge range between free and maximum profits. I’m not arguing that they shouldn’t be incentivized with a profit, the question is how much and what's in the best interest of the American people, not just Pfizer and Moderna.

Do you think the ~$20/dose Pfizer and Moderna are charging is unreasonable?

Re: Pfizer, Moderna seen reaping billions from Covid-19 vaccine booster market

#80

Post by glandium »

foepys wrote: post #55
guidovranken wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm fine with that if it happens in a free market under informed consent and for curing real diseases. But big pharma, big media, big tech, government and law enforcement acting in complete lockstep to forcibly inject experimental vaccines into your veins for something that amounts to a bad variant of the flu is something else entirely.

Did you ever have the flu? I bet you didn't and if you think you did, you probably had a cold instead. A runny nose, headaches, and a sore throat doesn't mean you got the flu. The flu will bind you to your bed for at least a week and you will need 3-6 weeks to recover. You will feel like somebody ran you over with a truck. It's not fun, it's highly dangerous.

FWIW, I've had the flu (confirmed with nasal swab). I was bound to bed for 2-3 days, with fever spikes above 41°C but it didn't take several weeks to recover. Barely a few days.
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