AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses • Hacker News Board

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#51

Post by tbrownaw » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 6:50 AM UTC

JPDeckers wrote: post #17

Ambroos wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess there's a large pool of IP addresses used by residential ISPs that could be recycled relatively easily. When I lived in Ireland I only got a public IPv6, my IPv4 was behind CG-NAT. The nerd in me wasn't a fan of that on paper, but in reality I didn't have any issues with it. I could see ISPs making a quick buck by switching to CG-NAT on IPv4 so they can sell off their IPv4 blocks. Those IPs being recycled for…

Problem with CGNAT is the costs involved in bookkeeping for law enforcement. Where an IPv4 solution for your clients only needs change-logging on IPbinding-to-client level, the CG-NAT requires you as an ISP to log every outgoing IPv4/port combination with timestamp to client mapping. Which requires A LOT more storage and much more expensive equipment. Going rate per IPv4 is up to $40 nowadays, selling of your v4 bloc…

> Where an IPv4 solution for your clients only needs change-logging on IPbinding-to-client level, the CG-NAT requires you as an ISP to log every outgoing IPv4/port combination with timestamp to client mapping.

Why does each individual connection have to get a port from the global allocator, rather than any of the pooling or hierarchical techniques that high performance memory allocators use?

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#52

Post by oarsinsync » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 6:59 AM UTC

skuhn wrote: post #29

korethr wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the cutoff for larger networks where the price starts to go down? Would say, a /16 count? Or does that effect kick in as low as, say, a /20?

I think that it starts to have downward pressure at /22 to /20. You can see Hilco's historicals at [1]. Not all purchases are done in public though. It seems to me like an arbitrage opportunity, since /24 and /23 networks have many more potential buyers. But you have to be approved with a regional registry for the amount of space in order to buy it. Observing things from the buy side, I suspect that IP space is being…

> But you have to be approved with a regional registry for the amount of space in order to buy it.

This hasn’t been my experience in RIPEland since post IPv4-exhaustion. Is this an ARINism?

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#53

Post by edoceo » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:02 AM UTC

tehbeard wrote: post #40

einpoklum wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> WThe nerd in me wasn't a fan of that on paper, but in reality I didn't have any issues with it. No issues? So, how are people supposed to be able to access your machine then?

Why should I want people to be accessing my personal desktop/laptop/tablet?

It's cause you want to get to your home boxen from outside.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#54

Post by toast0 » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:05 AM UTC

RedShift1 wrote: post #36

techsupporter wrote: post #30

Meanwhile, Hetzner just added a staggering $19/address setup fee and a soon doubling of prices for IPv4 addresses from them ostensibly due to the rising costs of getting addresses, yet still has virtually no support for IPv6 on their offerings outside of a /64 per dedicated server. https://docs.hetzner.com/general/others/ipv4-pricing/

Why would you need anything other than a /64 on your server?

Maybe they mean that things like flexible/assignable ips and load balancers aren't available on v6.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#55

Post by skuhn » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:06 AM UTC

oarsinsync wrote: post #52

skuhn wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that it starts to have downward pressure at /22 to /20. You can see Hilco's historicals at [1]. Not all purchases are done in public though. It seems to me like an arbitrage opportunity, since /24 and /23 networks have many more potential buyers. But you have to be approved with a regional registry for the amount of space in order to buy it. Observing things from the buy side, I suspect that IP space is being…

> But you have to be approved with a regional registry for the amount of space in order to buy it. This hasn’t been my experience in RIPEland since post IPv4-exhaustion. Is this an ARINism?

That's my understanding with ARIN, yeah.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#56

Post by zozbot234 » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

skuhn wrote: post #43

anthropodie wrote: post #6

IPv6 will never happen without someone forcing hands of big corps and ISPs to switch to Ipv6. Imagine all social media and streaming services, disable ipv4 within a month. These are not critical services but still will force ISPs to make the switch.

I actually think that what will really drive IPv6 adoption is if the price of IPv4 space continues its upward trajectory unabated. The price has about doubled at auction in the last year. How are those two things related? 1. There are a ton of owners sitting on inefficiently used IP space. Any company (not doing cloud hosting or network transit) that's holding a /8 is almost certainly using it very inefficiently, but…

> There are a ton of owners sitting on inefficiently used IP space.

This includes AWS, btw. You effectively get a public IPv4 with your instance, regardless of your actual needs. It actually increases your costs to get cloud instances that don't do that.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#57

Post by edoceo » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:07 AM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #34

selectodude wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly prudential is the one that stuns me. They’re an insurance company! Why do they need all those?!

Prudential got that block 5 year before IPv6 was introduced.

Maybe they just bought it for insurance.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#58

Post by usr1106 » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:11 AM UTC

IncRnd wrote: post #31

Ericson2314 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah I would like the FTC go after new IPv4 deployments / mandate dual stack on anti-trust grounds.

How does IPv4's use translate to anti-trust?

Controlling 200 times more of a critical resource than the next competitor does not sound like healthy competition.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#59

Post by dbmnt » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:20 AM UTC

edoceo wrote: post #53

tehbeard wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why should I want people to be accessing my personal desktop/laptop/tablet?

It's cause you want to get to your home boxen from outside.

There are other solutions to this problem now. Tailscale comes to mind.

Re: AWS adds an extra 5.5M IPv4 addresses

#60

Post by skuhn » Sat, Aug 14, 2021, 7:32 AM UTC

zozbot234 wrote: post #56

skuhn wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually think that what will really drive IPv6 adoption is if the price of IPv4 space continues its upward trajectory unabated. The price has about doubled at auction in the last year. How are those two things related? 1. There are a ton of owners sitting on inefficiently used IP space. Any company (not doing cloud hosting or network transit) that's holding a /8 is almost certainly using it very inefficiently, but…

> There are a ton of owners sitting on inefficiently used IP space. This includes AWS, btw. You effectively get a public IPv4 with your instance, regardless of your actual needs. It actually increases your costs to get cloud instances that don't do that.

AWS has that inefficiency baked in to their design, but I'm guessing that they do efficiently deploy their IPv4 space.

That is still a problem for sure, but I thinking of places doing things like giving a printer its own subnet just because they have no incentive to be efficient.